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Class III Firearms Question, please help....

leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
edited July 2002 in Ask the Experts
I'm seeing short barrel shotguns for sale, and they claim that all you have to pay is a $5 tax fee. But then I see other's and they say you have to pay a $200 tax fee.

Also, if you can buy a short barreled shotgun, can you buy a non-machinegun, short barreled carbine?

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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Comments

  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is what I have been told by those that are supposed to know. But, to be sure, if it was really important to me so I could comply with the letter of the law, I would contact the BATF.

    A carbine or rifle must have a minimum barrel length of 16 inches. A shotgun must have a minimum barrel length of 18 inches. An UZI carbine with folding stock has an overall length of about 26 inches, which makes it pretty small. Generally, because of a fixed stock, a shotgun will be longer than this.

    An UZI sub machine gun comes with a 10 inch barrel, which is legal on a SMG but not on the Semi-Auto Carbine. If a 10 inch barrel was to be put onto a semi-auto carbine, the gun would become illegal and the owner subject to arrest. But if you pay the $200 Tax and get a stamp, you can have the 10 inch barrel on your semi-auto. A waste of your $200 and a perfectly good SMG stamp, in my opinion, but you could. I'm sure this same scenario could be applied to a shot gun with a barrel shorter than the required 18 inch length with such a $200 Class III Stamp.

    I have not heard of a $5 fee for a "short barrel" for any shotgun or carbine/rifle. There may be someone out there that knows off the top of their head, but I don't. As I said, I would check BATF's site for the straight information if I was concerned with a "short barrel" gun to be sure I was in compliance.

    I would be very suspicious of a $5 fee for anything.......that barely will buy anything anymore, and I would doubt the government would assess such a small fee for anything except maybe the time of day. I would like to know though if there is such a fee/license!

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!

    Edited by - rancheropaul on 07/14/2002 02:35:37
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  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i'm in the process of filling out a couple of class 3's so i pulled the apps. and box no. 1 (type of transfer) has a place for a $200.00 and 5.00 transfer. part 2(i) of instructios (rate of tax) says "the tax on the transfer of any nfa firearm is $200.00, except that the tax is $5.00 on the transfer of a firearm classified as (any other wheapon)". this is as clear as mud to me, but i hope it helps you. i've never do a $5.00 transfer.
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yea, thats what I heard, that a short barrel shotgun is an AOW. And the transfer fee is only $5.

    Also, I should say, I've emailed the ATF with questions several times, and always get the same answer "I've forwareded your email to blah dept." Its always the same crap, never a clear answer. I'm really starting to get frustrated with this whole buncha red tape, and B.S. firearms laws.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    call them on the phone. have never had any probs. getting answers.
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, I've done both of these. The short barrel shotgun is an AOL and is only $5.00. The full auto machine and smgs are $200. That is a one time fee. I assume that the gun is already registered as AOL.

    Hope this helps.

    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • AntiqueDrAntiqueDr Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not true in all cases.

    The only way a short-barrelled shotgun gets to be classified as an AOW is if the receiver was originally built into that configuration. For instance, the Wilson Combat/Scattergun Tech 14" guns are built on a factory-new stripped receiver and can therefore be registered as AOW with a $5 transfer fee.

    Taking an existing shotgun and converting it into a short-barrelled shotgun requires a $200 transfer.

    You can buy a short-barrelled rifle, but all NFA rules will apply there as well.


    We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson.Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
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  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    AntiqueDr is correct.

    However, the BS goes even further. If the receiver has ever had, or ever has, a barrel of more than 18in. installed it becomes a short barreled shotgun (SBS) and is subject to the higher tax or potential seizure. In other words, you can't buy a receiver registered as an AOW and have the option of switching barrels as necessary. If you ever install a legal length barrel on this receiver it is no longer an AOW. If you then re-install the short barrel you are guilty of manufacturing a SBS without a license. I know this BATF nonsense doesn't make sense, but are you surprised?

    I can post some links for you that will educate you on the specific federal statutes if you like, I just don't have them on the machine I'm on right now.
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  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i guess it doesn't make sense, but it's somewhat logical.
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  • snowshoesnowshoe Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In the early 80s I sent a 20 guage double barrel to a class 2 manf. and he had the barrels cut down to 10 inches and the but stock cut into a pistol grip. He registered it as a short barrel shot gun and paied $5.00 for a tax stamp. I still have the gun and paperwork, I don,t know if the laws have changed since that time.
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for clearing this stuff up for me. I was thinking about replacing my custom winnie (winchester) defender with a mossberg 590 entry shotgun.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    snow, is the stamp in your name? if not it needs to be.
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