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80% receivers

loruslorus Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
edited July 2002 in Ask the Experts
Hello all.

While waiting for my NYC rifle permit to arrive I decided to occupy myself with something different. Why not build a rifle?

After researching the topic I realized, that I can pretty much own most of the rifle parts without the permit except for the receiver. But even at that I can buy an unfinished receiver and finish it myself.

A banal question, but ... what kind of tools would I need? And while on the topic, is it worth it to perheaps build a receiver according to specs myself? Is it worth it, or do I just pay extra $$$ for complete receiver or complete rifle for that matter?

The fact is that I will get 10 times more enjoyment out of shooting a rifle that I have built myself.

Eugene.

Comments

  • loruslorus Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read a topic about 10/22 receivers a few days ago but lost it. A more general question: Has anyone built a rifle or pistol by finishing an 80% receiver. The legal aspects have pretty much been covered. I'm interested in the amount of work and your satisfaction with the finish product.

    Thanks,

    cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>
  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Financially you lose.
    I have done 4
    You need a steady drill press or even better is a milling machine.
    several drills,reamers and the big bit a ns tap for the buffer tube.
    cpermd
  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    WHOAAA LORUS ...your still out off luck here. I believe you need a weapon manufacturing license to "make" weapons (ie the receiver). If the receiver is already made and numbered you could assembly it, but that's it. OR, you could make a black power weapon. Sorry, "uncle sugar" got you boxed in coming and going! *G* ...Mark

    ps ..I think the manufacturing licenses is about a $1000 ...if your still interested

    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
  • 101AIRBORNE101AIRBORNE Member Posts: 1,252 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Echo called it-need a license to manufacture, even from an
    80% receiver. Plus, being in NYC, no legal chance.
    Further, you have no control of the metallurgy. I personally would not even consider this project. 101
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    11echo & 101AIRBORNE - WRONG!

    I have "Built" several AR's, AK's & HK's from completed receivers ... there is no law that says you can't!

    FURTHER -
    The BTAF allows you to "build" (from scratch) 1 firearm per year for your personal use (but must conform to BTAF code 922R), it cannot be sold but may be "handed down" or willed to an heir. It does not have to be serial numbered but must be marked so that it can be positively identified.

    If you buy a finished receiver (with serial number), the BTAF regards that as "the weapon", regardless if it is complete or not and you must fill out the 4473 (yellow sheet) and pass a NICS background in order for it to be transferred to you.

    Ditto what cpermd says in his post: quote: you need a steady drill press or even better is a milling machine. Several drills, reamers and the big bit a ns tap for the buffer tube. It can be done but is more expensive than buying a completed receiver.

    Lastly, your state of residence would still prevail and you must also conform to the states requirements such as the permit.


    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    11Echo and 101 Airbourgne.
    Have you ever thought about reading the actual laws.
    They are all HIGHLY visible at ATF.Com.
    Please read before posting.
    You look a lot less stupid that way.
    cpermd



    Edited by - cpermd on 07/13/2002 07:45:44
  • deerhntrdeerhntr Member Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You cant legaly possess/register/transport an AR-15 in NYC at all,
    I know because i lived there for 21 years and just last year moved
    up state 109 miles away from that sh*t hole,a few words to the wise
    about that B.S. N.Y.C. Rifle/shotgun permit,first of all you must register all guns you buy,that means your local police precint has
    the make model and serial number of all your guns which is not too bad IF the ones you have REMAIN LEGAL in the city if they dont
    the COPS WILL COME TO YOUR HOME AND TAKE THEM or if you keep your "permit" up to date IF YOU LET IT EXPIRE by one day THE COPS COME AND TAKE YOUR GUNS TOO (they know what you have and where you have them)
    If you want to buy rifles and shotguns (not pistols) just drive
    into long island (nassau or Sufkolk county) you could buy them with just your drivers license and a NICS check there.Long island does not have a rifle shotgun permit scheme nor do they enforce city laws.
    although some kmarts and sports authoritys that sell guns wont sell
    it to you buy only out of thier choice not the law.
    so just go to a large GUN DEALERSHIP on long island and they wont give you any trouble at all.
    When you buy a gun there you go through a Federal back gound check
    (NICS) which takes 15 minutes to three days depending on how common your last name is, once you get approved you go home with your gun
    the only thing is once you drive into the city with it you are in poseson of an "un registered" gun and will get in trouble ,BUT you are violating a city statute you were APPROVED by the federal government to have said gun so how much trouble you will have i dont know.I just gave you all this information because you do have options
    as a gun owner in the city as much as the liberal filth bag lawmakers
    would not want you to know about.the "legal" thing to do is get the permit and register your guns but back in 1989 when the city banned assault weapons everyone who dit the "legal" thing got them conficated
    but the mayers henchmen (they went to the homes of registerd owners of AR-15's and weapons similur and TOOK THEM.remember the one true
    GUN PERMIT is the SECOND AMENDMENT, Good Luck friend.
  • JIM STARKJIM STARK Member Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    CPERMD..Thanks for saying it.....Some folks on this forum just post to see themselves talk......Sooner or later one of these so called "EXPERTS" will post some erroneous info that will get somebody in legal trouble, or worse yet injured or dead... Thanks again....
    JIM......

    Edited by - JIM STARK on 07/14/2002 05:09:19
  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mr LORUS, if you want "legal" advice I suggest you go to a law office and pay a lawyer! If you want to cross lances with the ATF, I suggest you listen to Mr CPERMD & KIMBERKID! They are what's called in the Army as "SH*THOUSE LAWYERS"! They will tell you what to do, BUT when the sh*t hits the fan, they are nowhere to be found when responsibility is to be placed! I myself relayed to you what I "believed" (as stated in my 1st post). If you want to manufacture a firearm I suggest you walk into a ATF office & discuss the issue with an agent. AND if this agent says it's ok .then get it in writing with the agents signature! It's been my experience in dealing with Govt. agencies that the "answer" changes from one end of the office to the other!
    OH and Mr kimberkid. I suggest you look up the difference between "manufacture" & "assemble"! .AND if you do "manufacture" a firearm, PLEASE be careful! You might hurt someone with that rubber band! Like Mr Stark, that's seems to be his caliber! .AGAIN, my 2 cents!!! .Mark


    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...OH by the way, I have contacted the ATF and re-asked the question. And this is their answer:

    "You must have a license to manufacture a firearm period."

    jlc


    AND if you don't beleive me, contact them yourself!

    JLCHESTER@SEATT.ATF.treas.gov

    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    11echo - I don't claim to be a lawyer, nor am I offering legal advise and I am not telling anyone what to do ... since you obiviously insist on giving out erronous information, I suggest you go to www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7 and read section A7 for yourself.quote:(A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?

    With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105]

    I am fully aware of the difference between "manufacture" & "assemble", thats why I specified that I have "Built" several AR's, AK's & HK's from completed receivers ... note the quote marks.

    I think if you re-read my initial post you'll see I also state "your state of residence would still prevail and you must also conform to the states requirements"

    I refuse to engage in a "war of wits" with an un-armed person.

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    If they (the ATF) are advising you that it's not legal for an unlicensed individual to build a firearm for personal use, and they are telling you it's necessary, please have them quote the governing section and verse. There are no Federal laws which prohibit an individual from making a firearm for personal use as long as it's of legal configuration. If anyone tells you otherwise, have them direct you to the applicable statute.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    SO let me get this straight, you guys want to get in a "pissing" contest with the ATF!!? Over there verbiage as to what's legal and what's not? Do we need to guess who the winner will be!?? AS I stated before, it's been my experience that when your dealing with a Govt. agency, you won't get the same answer from one end of the office to the other. I think this is a PRIME example! And since we are talking about the ATF, we are dealing ONLY at the federal level! I've not stated ANTHING on the state level.
    Mr kimberkid, your the one that jumped in claiming

    "I have "Built" several AR's, AK's & HK's from completed receivers ... there is no law that says you can't!"

    NOBODY asked if it was legal to "built" a firearm on a receiver! Mr LORUS asked if he could MANUFACTURE one (that's' what your doing finishing a 80% receiver) Then Mr CPERMD jumped on the band wagon slinging mud! But you are right about thing ...I refuse to engage in a "war of wits" with an un-armed person! And Buddy, you are out of ammo! GOOD LUCK to you SIR! .You'll need it!


    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    In order to be convicted for a crime there has to be a law against the activity. Unfortunately, there are many ATF agents who don't even know the law, as can be attested to by a number of people. If you can find a Federal statue that prohibits this, I would sure be interested in seeing it. It doesn't exist.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    And if there is no statue on the books prohibiting an activity, I can guarantee who will win in a court of law.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks boeboe ... some people just wont admit it when they are wrong ...

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boeboe ...AS I WOULD! (taking a big breath) ...this is kind of a optic near and dear to me. AND I do apologies for getting huffy here. I do like to get into a "heated" debate on optics like this. AND on occasions I can go overboard. (with a cooler head) .I have two contentions here:
    1.) I have asked ATF what there ruling is on this and have ONLY restated their answer. (You have seen my thoughts on what I think of govt. depts.!)

    2.) There is a reality factor here, IF you lock horns with the law over this you WILL LOOSE! EVEN if you are right. I have seen it happen locally around me and everybody has seen it nationally ...is it worth the headaches? Ultimately only you can judge ...when I was younger I may have been in thick of it, but now that I'm older and have seen the "real" world, I'd think hard on it, if it was worth it. AND when can you guarantee anything in a court of law, remember O.J.? My 2 cents (last ones - promise!*G*). ...Mark


    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let's hope that none of the ARs, AKs, or HKs, that 11echo "built" after September 13, 1994 were assembled to "pre-ban" specifications. If so, he risks having his own unpleasant encounter with the fellows with the bulges in the cheap suits.

    Neal
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    11echo - I too would like to apologize for my inappropriate comment - it was uncalled for.

    As to your position on quote:2.) There is a reality factor here, IF you lock horns with the law over this you WILL LOOSE! EVEN if you are right. I have seen it happen locally around me and everybody has seen it nationally ...is it worth the headaches? Ultimately only you can judge ...when I was younger I may have been in thick of it, but now that I'm older and have seen the "real" world, I'd think hard on it, if it was worth it.Although that wasn't asked either, there is truth in what you say, the BTAF has been running rampant for too many years ... kinda like the IRS, but to quote an old saying:

    Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

    If we don't exercise our rights they are as good as gone, are you willing to give up more rights before they have even been taken?

    Neal - I believe that was my thread about building the AR's, AK's and HK's ... I like to tinker, but have no desire to do "time", I assure you they were/are 922R compliant. When something says anything about 922 or NFA I pay attention.

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com

    Edited by - kimberkid on 07/17/2002 18:45:58
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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