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Missing Hazmat package

mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 2002 in Ask the Experts
Well a couple of weeks ago I ordered some primers and powder-figured I'd save some serious dollars with a large order enough to compensate for the rip off Hazmat charge. Well it was theoretically "delivered" to our apartment complex office on the 10th. Except that the person who signed for it, never got it. Nothing tells anyone what they are signing for except what they see from UPS and they get plenty of packages each day. This is still appparently a concept that the shipper doesn't quite yet get either(don't they get their stuff via UPS???)

What bothers me is that I think the Hazmat is a tip-off to any low-life working for UPS. Has anyone here experienced missing Hazmat packages? It's one thing for someone to rip stuff off, but this is the sort of thing you really don't want in the mitts of some psycho.
You'd think UPS might be a little more careful after 9/11 but it doesn't look that way.


Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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Comments

  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Me and many others can go on and on about UPS and the thieves they employ! Let me just say this. The reason the only way they will ship a handgun is by Overnight Express is because they have some control over that form of their services. They are well aware of their "thieves" and because they can't control them, we pay triple the charge to allow them some sort of control........something may be wrong here but how would a "screwed customer" possibly know?

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!

    Edited by - RancheroPaul on 07/16/2002 20:50:46
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have gotten other packages from UPS lately and this seems to be the only "missing" package.

    I'd still like to hear if you haven't been getting Hazmat packages. Also, while UPS may not give a hairy rodent's derriere, shouldn't this sort of stuff be reported to authorities, especially now?. It's against the law to possess gunpowder and primers in Illinois without a valid FOID card.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well this continuing saga is quite informative. If someone signs for a package from UPS (at my apartment complex office), UPS no longer cares. It was "delivered" because they have a signature. It doesn't matter if the package was actually delivered to ANYONE. The fact that the person signed for multiple packages without any manifest of what they received doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the office logs packages in afterwards to verify that the rightful recipient might be shown to have gotten (or not) a package delivered on a given day. All the driver has to do is scan the package for signature confirmation--if he gets a signature, that package is his and you are shafted. My office has nothing in the log but UPS has a signature.

    FWIW, the vendor, Natchezz, seems to believe UPS more than their customers. I won't ever buy anything from them again and have filed for a chargeback with my credit card company. They think I have nothing better to do with my time than complain about a "non-existing" problem--the package after all was "delivered."

    Hopefully the credit card company won't give me a hard time or they are history too.

    I'd still like to hear from you guys if you have had problems with UPS especially on stuff like this.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • super chickensuper chicken Member Posts: 58 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ask UPS to see the signature. They will show you if they have one. Whoever signed is responsible for what they signed for.
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Our apartment office signs for packages, but assumes no liability. Yes I could take them to court, but they didn't get this package. They are careful with what they actually get, but they didn't get this one or they would have it in their log. You cannot see what you sign for with UPS, but they dump the responsibility for what's being delivered on the signee with NO MANIFEST of what they ACTUALLY deliver. No one would sign a contract for something without having some idea of what they agree to, but this is what happens with UPS and most of the businesses they ship to everyday. Years ago, you signed a piece of paper with a list and could see what you were getting--this is no longer true.

    There was NO ATTEMPT to deliver the package to my residence and no notice of attempted delivery. UPS is responsible, but they certainly aren't acting that way. The vendor is now out more than $1000 in business annually and I am not sure how I am going to get my reloading supplies in the future.



    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just as SUPERCHICKEN said, "whoever signed for it is responsible." If they signed for it, they should be responsible enough to make sure they get what they signed for. Besides, if the apartment complex says they "aren't responsible" they better not sign for it saying to UPS they received it. If they did receive it, fine! If not, NO SIGNATURE!

    Put another way, If they didn't receive it and didn't sign that they had, you would not be injured now looking for your package. It would be up to UPS to find it and deliver it to you.....or pay you for it. Sue the person that signed for it in small claims court.....they won't sign again for a Non-Existent Package! You have no responsibility to "protect an Idiot that signs for stuff they don't get!"

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree they share responsibility, but UPS did not and does not provide the information to make the signature sufficient proof of delivery. UPS is saying the signature is proof. It is not. If they had delivered the package, it would be logged in, and I would have signed for it upon receipt. All the signature means in fact is that the driver scanned the package before bringing some packages that day to the office. It's not a line for line, item for item validation. If that were the only item shipped and she signed for it, yes I would sue. But it's not. A signature that has no direct validation for an item is worthless as proof. UPS system is flawed

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • I.ShuteI.Shute Member Posts: 647 ✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't sign for a package with my right hand that I wasn't holding in my left hand.
    Would you?
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's the issue. If you aren't able to verify what you are holding, a signature means nothing. UPS makes it impossible to verify for a person to know what they've got if it involves more than one package.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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  • LIKTOSHOOTLIKTOSHOOT Member Posts: 523 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    All the talking to UPS will get you no where. They make the rules. I have had many dealings with them, over the years....concerning firearms. If you are "sure" no package was delivered. Contact your local law enforcement and the BATF, then explain your new course of action to UPS. It is wise to have them (local LEO) advised of State and local ordanances.....concerning (Haz-Mat...ie, powder and primers....firearm related. F.O.I.D. ) Have the Sheriff give a call, concerning this problem....or locals, which ever will work with you. Explain your next course of action is the BATF and that will be your next call. The LEO will relate this to UPS, as the next course of action. Reason: Your name is on the package AND the original order from where it was shipped. Though the receiver may not be liable, you are, should anything bad happen with the items involved. UPS rarely gets moving until then. They will continue to use....it was delivered and signed for. Filing a claim against them is also in order, (for lost products) Regards LTS
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  • I.ShuteI.Shute Member Posts: 647 ✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't sign that I'd received an unknown quantity of unidentified packages.
    Would you??
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  • I.ShuteI.Shute Member Posts: 647 ✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't sign that I'd received an unknown quantity of unidentified packages.
    Would you??
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    UPS is not a fool proof system, and it works both ways sometimes...I had a UPS employee tell me about a shady gun dealer that regularly took delivery on military long guns....UPS driver brought in one arm load of long guns and went back to the truck to get more. In the mean time the shady dealer takes one of the boxes from the first trip and hides it. When the driver got back inside the guys store with the second load of guns they started counting boxes it seems the count came up short,(one FN-FAL). Store owner claimed UPS mis-counted....since the driver couldn't prove the store owner had stolen the package, he lost his job over the incident. Had a mortgage, car payments, 3 kids and a pregnant wife to support....The gun dealers questionable business practices finally caught up with him, and he later went bankrupt. There are more "secure delivery services" out there....but you pay more for the service, guess it's part of the risks one takes.

    I've had UPS drop packages off at our house when no one is home, nothing to prevent someone walking by from stealing them off the doorstep. Try to request a "signature required" when ordering things now. I now buy all my ammo and loading components at a store or gun show.
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  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another call to Natchezz got the same "shown as delivered" and a call from the local UPS got exactly the same message. You'd think they all were drinking the same tainted well water or something. Natchezz said that their customer service supervisor would be back in two weeks.

    I'm not waiting, I filed a chargeback dispute with my credit card. Charge comapnies do have some leverage. It costs vendors for chargebacks in addition to the amount charged and they might in turn put the screws on UPS for this one.

    Can anyone other than UPS ship reloading powder and primer?

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
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