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.308 Match Reloading

wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
edited July 2002 in Ask the Experts
If I wan't to handload to match a round like the Fed168GoldMedal to match the bdc on a Mark4 M3 scope, does it matter what type of powder I use, as long as the 168gr bullet leaves the barrel at 2600fps?

Chris
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Comments

  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As far as the BDC is concerened "No". As far as being able to shoot a group "Yes". The problem is barrel harmonics, with the right powder you'll get 2600 and tight groups, with a different powder you'll get 2600 and very open groups.
    Try BL-C(2) powder, than try N 150, than IMR 4064, and finaly try RL-15. One of those should give you a fairly tight group at near the 2600fps your looking for.
    Someone may offer some other powder sugestions also, those are mine.
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The scope im using now on my Krico 600 Sniper is a Karl Kaps 2.5-10x56 BDC with German #4 reticle.
    The BDC is not calibrated to the Swedish Army Sniper round I'm currently using.
    Thinking of investing in a high-end scope, my first thought is the Mark 4 M1 or M3 scope, it's alot of money and probobly over my budget but I think it could pay of.
    Should I choose the M1 so I can swap the scope if I buy a rifle in a different caliber and learn how the bullet is impacting at all ranges, or should I choose the M3 and change cams, but then I'm limiting myself in .308 to 168gr 2600fps rounds, then I'm back where I started with the Kaps scope I hate.
    As it's alot of money I'm asking in advance so I won't feel like a complete fool if it turnes out to be wrong!

    Thanks guys,
    Chris the Swede
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, the long range shooters will tell you to forget the bdc thing all together. Get a "mill dot" scope (you use the dots for ranging targets) and use click elevations and windage (you have to use windage clicks even with the bdc's). Create yourself a range/drop/windage table that matches the load your shooting (get a good accurate load first). Do some reading over at http://www.longrangehunting.com and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    Another thing to consider doing (with your current scope) is that when you change loads, is to compinsate for the bdc error IE: maybe go down 2 clicks when using the 300M mark or use the 500M aiming point at 450M (whatever it takes to get on target at that distance).

    In any event, you need to determine what load (powder type and charge with what bullet style and weight) works best in your rifle first. test for actual drop at different ranges, than work out what cam to use. Depending on your exact combo it might not be the recogmended one for a 308.
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My scope is unlike the Mark4 as there is only 6 settings on the scope, there is no clicks between the adjustments. But you can set the bdc between them but they don't stay the sam after recoil!
    Tailgunner, your probobly right on not choosing a BDC scope as it limits me on a specific load.
    So should I go for the Leupold Mark4 or are there any alternatives of equal quality?
    Thanks again!

    Chris
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Considering your location, you might consider looking at the optics offered by Kahles, Ziess, Swavorski, etc (the quality europian stuff) because after overseas shipping is figgured in they might be less expensive than the Leupold. Over on this side of the pond the pricing is reversed.
    Since (as you said) the price is a concern to you, get your load(s) worked out first, see how your current scope tracks your load(s)second, than shop around for a better piece of glass (if your not happy) third.
    Most of the optics makers have a 'mil. dot' retical in their line up.
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    comparable to the Mark IV? that depends on scope quality or features you want. there are many that offer the lens quality (zeiss, Schmidt and Bender, swarovski) but for the tactical knobs and absolute retention of "zero" after multiple adjustments, I would go with a nightforce extreme or the Mark IV. The nightforce is about $200-$300 mre, but the reticle choice and illumination makes it worth the extra$$. I have 2 mark IV's and wouldn't be without them. The BDC is a setup which, will only work well if you can match the velocity and still maintain a tight group. But, it limits your bullet weight and powder selection as well as bullet design. If you wish to hit targets at all ranges, WITH THE LOAD THAT WORKS BEST IN YOUR RIFLE, and not a load that the scope requires, then get a tactical adjustment scope, like the MK IV, and create the load your rifle shoots above and beyond all other loads. Then you just learn your clicks for each distance, and make up your dope log, and your done. Just my way of doing it, I don't beleive in scopes that tell me where my bullet will be at some distance.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've sent a E-mail to the Krico factory asking for which cartridge the BDC on the original was made for. That scope is somewere at my bosses gunshop, we haven't looked for it yet.
    I will ask him on which load the Karl Kaps was made for.

    I haven't really had any time to try that many loads as I haven't had this rifle for were long.
    But when I got the time and money I'm getting as serious as I can be on getting a working sniper setup.

    I wan't a Mil-Dot reticle instead of the German #4, don't know if anyone can change the reticle.

    Today I shot a 5 shoot group at 200 meters, and it measured (excluding on flyer) 2.10cm and that's about 1/2 mil (Am I right???)

    Love the rifle, ain't so fond of the scope!

    Chris
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After thinking about the Mark4 I think it's a little to rich for me, at $1900, if I can't find a used scope I'm going for a european.
    I can spend that extra money on a Rem VS.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    wallman, the 2.1 cm group at 200 m would be about .36" MOA - pretty fair group! Rough equation: ((2.1 / 2.54 / 2)*.9)
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Midsouth shooters supply has MK IV scopes for $1000-$1100. $1900 is absolutely rediculous.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Midsouth shooters supply has MK IV scopes for $1000-$1100. $1900 is absolutely rediculous.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

    He's in Sweeden, thats why I suggested the europian glass, his pricing problem is the reverse of ours, due to shipping and import duties.
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Got a friend in Plano, TX which U visit frequently, I might just bring one home in my suitcase, but only if I find a great deal while I'm there!

    One more thought is the stock, it's a target stock with adjustable cheek-piece, straight pistol grip and ventilated forearm. Free flaoting barrel. I wan't all my rifles to have synthetic stock, but I relly like the Krico action.

    I'm gonna post some pics of the rifle when I figure out how!

    Chris
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    have your friend order it a week before you visit. Wrap it in clothes, and check it in at the desk. They will never catch it, even if they did, it's not a weapon and will go through fine. Just claim it's value at $80 and walk away. Take a sales receipt from a fake company to prove that's all you paid. You can buy receipts at any office product store, put your friends phone number as the business number and have him field the call as the "owner" if there is any holdup in customs. But, I don't foresee that happening.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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  • wallmanwallman Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can someone please upload my pictures of the rifles if I send them to someones E-mail, I don't have time to screw around with my Internet provider.
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