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Sizing full length brass shotshells
rhope
Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
I started reloading back in the days of paper shotshells. Aquiring 12 gauge empties was no problem. 10 and 20 gauge empties were another story. Eventually I bought 100 full length brass 10 gauge cases (ALCAN) and 100 full length brass 20 gauge cases (Remington).
I was able to reload these cases quite a number of times but eventually they became too hard to chamber (there is no way I can size them on my ancient MEC press).
I recently contacted RCBS to inquire if their shotshell dies for single stage metallic presses could be used. The answer I got was "No", and besides they no longer make these dies.
Any suggestions ?
P.S. The ALCAN shells were designed for the old Remington size G57 shotshell primer. I still have a small supply but would like to know if they are still available from any source ? Or if it is possible or practical to drill or ream the primer pockets to take 209 size primers ?
I was able to reload these cases quite a number of times but eventually they became too hard to chamber (there is no way I can size them on my ancient MEC press).
I recently contacted RCBS to inquire if their shotshell dies for single stage metallic presses could be used. The answer I got was "No", and besides they no longer make these dies.
Any suggestions ?
P.S. The ALCAN shells were designed for the old Remington size G57 shotshell primer. I still have a small supply but would like to know if they are still available from any source ? Or if it is possible or practical to drill or ream the primer pockets to take 209 size primers ?
Comments
Jim
using the old Rem # 57 primers which I use. Lckily I have about
500 primers I FOUND in a gun shop and bought. However, I am told,
(dont take this for fact) , one can swedge the Rem. 57 out to a 209
primer by seating, with difficulty, a USED 209 primer, depriming it
and using a live 209 primer, then. Otherwise it can be reamed out
for a 209 primer. Also, I resize my 10 ga brass in a old Lee
Loader ( the *) by pressing it in with lube and out to resize
it. Using a vise or arbor press. Annealing the case first is a
good idea. Heat it up darn hot and immidiately drop it into a pan
of water for annealing it. This gives me many more uses. Any
questions? j3rding@comcast.net Joe
Yes, I have seen this kind of thing for sale at several dollars each. But can I buy anything new that would have the same kind of durability ?
When I first got a 10 magnum I bought some new, unfired 3 1/2" paper cases. I found that the paper would burn through just above the brass so that when I opened the gun the extractor would pull the head off the case, leaving the paper tube in the chamber. This sometimes happened as early as the second loading.
Full length brass cases were not cheap, even back then. They came in boxes of 10 and I bought one box and reloaded those cases several times before deciding to buy more. I bought them one box at a time, when I had the money, until I eventually got 100 of them. I never lost a case due to any kind of case failure (I did of course loose some to mud, water, tall grass, etc.).
When plastic cases came along, I bought some factory loads (2 oz.), then reloaded with max (2 1/4 oz.) loads. When the case mouths got to tattered for a decent crimp I cut them off at 2 7/8" and reloaded them with standard 2 7/8" 10 gauge loads. When those crimps gave out, I cut them back again and reloaded them a few more times using a top wad held in with a little glue. A big improvement over paper, but not as indestructible as full length brass.
Since these cases have already been loaded a number of times I don't think that their collectable value would be seriously reduced by continuing to use them. I still have some G57 primers as well as the special oversize wads required because of the thinner case walls. I think I will give up the idea of modifying the cases to use 209 size primers as this would probably reduce their eventual collector value.
joeaf1911a1,
I checked a recent Lee catalog and it seems they no longer make the Lee Loader for shotshells.
I have annealed some rifle cases because it seems to reduce case loss due to neck splits. I have also annealed some 45/70 cases to ease refoming them to 40/65. However, in these cases I annealed only the forward portion of the case (by standing the cases in a pan of water and heating the exposed portion with a propane torch). As I understand it, you are annealing the whole case including the head. If you have any further comments I would be interested (e.g. how to know when it is hot enough ? by the color ?).
Also do you have a secret for keeping the top wads in place under recoil ? I believe the original instructions I had were to use "waterglass" for sealing. When I finally found some of this stuff it did not seem to work very well. I experimented with various glues and epoxies. The best solution I came up with (for hunting loads) was to adjust the wad column so that the top wad was seated just below the case mouth, put a very slight crimp on the case mouth and then run a bead of epoxy around under the edge of the crimp. Even so, if I fired only one barrel, I would move the remaining shell to the "first" barrel and put the new shell in the "second" barrel so that any given shell had to withstand the recoil of no more than one other shot.
For "target" loads (1 1/4 oz.) I used ALCAN Quik-Sert shot protectors, which extended well above the top of such a small shot load. The top wad was then forced into the top of the shot protector, for a fairly tight fit.
I can see that I am rambling on here. I tend to do that when I get on the subject of guns or airplanes. Sorry about that.
And thanks to both of you.
Robert
I don't know about 10 ga, but I've forwarded this msg to another GB forum member who has tooling to resize brass cases and he might be able to help you.
I live in the extreme south-west corner of Quebec. Almost in Ontario. Almost in New York state. About 50 miles south-west of Montreal. I work in Montreal.
I would certainly be interested in some of your #57 primers. There is no big rush as I still have some and my first problem is resizing the cases.
Can you give me an idea of the quantity you have and the price you have in mind ? And when you expect to be in Montreal again ?
Thanks,
Robert
Don`t know if you missed my previous post or if you just didn`t want to put the info on this site.
As I live near the US border, I have a US PO Box. If you would prefer to sent me a note you could send it to Robert Hope, P.O. Box 514, Fort Covington, NY 12937-0514.
Thanks,
Robert
I suspect that Iconoclast tried to forward your post to me --- BUT that feature of this forum does NOT work.
I have and regularily HUNT with old Damascus barreled ladies. I load black powder and black powder substutute shotshell casings for them. I have --- after almost a year wait --- a resizing die for 12 gauge from CH4D, that fits my old Herter's press. Unfortunately the 20 gauge sizing die I ordered from CH4D still has not been made yet. If your brass was 12 gauge I would be happy to resize it for you. I will be happy to do the same for your 20 gauge whenever CH4D gets around to making the sizing die for me. In the mean time I will be happy to loan you one of my 20 gauge Lee Loader sets until you can acquire one of your own. I trust that I may send it to the U. S. post office box that you have listed???
I do not have anything in 10 gauge --- and I do not have any Lee Loader sets for 10 gauge. If I had one, I would be glad to send it to you on loan, long enough for you to resize your brass. As joeaf1911a1 has told you --- you can use a BIG vice or arbor press to drive the lubed shotshell casing into the resizing die. Since I have neither of these ---- they are out of my price range ---- until I got the 12 gauge sizing die ---- I drove the lubed shotshell casings into the Lee Loader resizing die using a small hydraulic jack and a "frame" made out of 4X4's. I drove the shotshell casing out of the die, using a wooden dowel just small enough to go down in the opening in the top of the die body. The die body sets on a LARGE washer that has an opening too small for the die body but large enough to let the shotshell casing out. The washer is on top of a 2X4 that has a hole drilled in it large enough to let the shotshell casing come out of the die body.
I have seen a number of 10 gauge Lee Loader sets on eBay --- at least 3 or 4 in the past year --- one last month. I will keep a look out for you and give you a holler if I see another one. Also keep a look out for the old Lyman Ideal Sizing Dies. I have them in 12 and 16 gauges but not 10 or 20 gauge. They look like a 5 inch piece of shiney water pipe. You would force the shotshell casing into the die using a LARGE vice, arbor press, or the hydraulic jack and 4X4 frame. Drive them out using a wooden dowel, set the die body on the large washer, over the hole in the 2X4, and drive out the lubed casing with a plastic or rubber mallet.
You already have loads for your 10 gauge, so I have no suggestions there. I do have a suggestion for the wads. A hunting buddy has a 10 gauge muzzle-stuffer, and I use a 12 gauge muzzle-stuffer during muzzle loading season. We both used the over size wads that you would use in loading solid brass shotshell casing. But we have both switched to styrofoam wads cut from the "meat-trays" that you get meat on from the supermarket. We use a piece of old shotgun barrel that has been ground down like an arc-punch. We use them in place of the old "blue-streak" wad and also in place of the over-shot card. We do put over-shot cards under the shot column and above the shot column so the shot doesn't dig into the styro wads. It has made a HUGE difference in the patterns. Much denser and more uniform.
I have started to use them in my shotshell reloading. I adjust the total column lenght so that the top styro wad (I use two over the shot column) has to be forced down lightly and put a small roll crimp on the brass shotshell casing. I use a bead of a silicone cement around the edge of the crimp. I use the same "field" procedure that you do. If I don't fire both barrels, then I move the unfired casing to the right barrel and put the new reload in the left barrel.
As stated above, I will be happy to loan you one of my 20 gauge Lee Loader sets until you can find a 20 gauge set on eBay. 20 gauges tend to show up quite frequently. Unfortunately not so frequently with 10 and 16 gauge.
Best Regards To You And Yours
I tried contacting your using the little e-mail icon, but it keeps getting bounced back to my. So I am going to post this here and hope that you see it in time.
There is a Lee Loader in 10 gauge 3-1/2 in shells
on eBay. Go to Sporting Goods --- to Reloading -- and
put 1847128459 in the search function. 10 gauges don't show up
too often. You might want to jump on this one.
Best Regards To You And Yours