In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

WHAT IS BLACK TALON AMMO ?

SCHOONERSCHOONER Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
edited August 2002 in Ask the Experts
Hi Guys/Gals

Can anyone out there tell me about this: CCI 9MM + P AMMO
Which is: Hollow Pt. @ 124grains. Why is it so expensive?
And what makes it so good if that at all.

THANKS.

SCHOONER @ THEGREATMONAC@AOL.COM

RAY MONACO
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • rick_renorick_reno Member Posts: 186 ✭
    edited November -1
    Black Talon was what Winchester sold a few years ago. When fired into soft tissue the bullet would expand and these little razor points would project out from the bullet. I shot a couple into a 5 gallon bucket of water to see what they would look like. Tt was an impressive bullet when expanded. Nasty stuff when spinning in soft tissue. Dr's complained that when digging these things out they would often tear their gloves, and the points are sharp enough to easily cut a finger - exposing the Dr's to all sorts of horrible things. Politicians got word that these bullets were designed to cause a lot of damage and banned them. I never got this - I assumed if you're shooting someone you want a lot of damage. Politicaly correctness won out on this one. After the ban prices went up.
    They might still be marketing a Black Talon bullet, if so I don't think it's one described above.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    What rick_reno said as far as the bullet and the damage it causes is true. They were also made by Winchester, not CCI like he said. The only error in his post is that they were banned. They were not banned, they were pulled from the market for public sale by Winchester. They are still legal to own and carry though the cival law suits that will come after their use probably would not be worth it when there are other rounds that can do the same damage. The reason they are so costly is that they do not make any new production, and what's out there is all there may ever be.

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pretty well explained to a point, here! Let me add a little, though. First of all, these "Black Talons" are NOT banned. It was a decision by Winchester to simply quit making and marketing them. When the Media made the publicity so harsh against Winchester, they pulled their stock off the shelves and "quit making them." Instead, Winchester started making the "Ranger SXT" to replace this TERRIBLE bullet!

    For those of you who don't already know, the Ranger SXT is not in a nickle case with a black bullet. It is much more "cosmetically" appealing with a shiny brass case and a copper bullet! Other than that, it is the same as the original Black Talon. Sold everywhere fine ammunition is sold! Ballistics are the same, too, and the bullet turns into a sharp fingered nasty SOB that does the same damage as the original Black Talon.

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something funny. I had a friend who got hold of 5 .357mag black talon bullets, went around showing everyone his "illegal" bullets, and then got scared and gave them to a police friend to dispose of them. To put a long story shot, me and the police friend had a good laugh about it.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gundummygundummy Member Posts: 254 ✭
    edited November -1
    The store that I bought my 45 acp's (about 6 months ago) were advertising the Rangers as "Black Talons". I thought they were pretty cheap at $16.00/50rnds, so I bought what they had left, which was not much. The ones I have are brass cased with an "evil" black painted bullet.....wooooo.....scary. I use them for plinking now and then. GD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes this has been interesting discussion.We are bad to call our now Duty load a black Talon.They are but there not,there technically Win RAINER bullets.We carry them in our .357sig P229s.I guess its something we need to quit doing,but I reeally see no difference between the two.



    Best!!!

    Rugster
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EducatorEducator Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ahhh, the evil Black Talon bullet. I'm sure most of you (if you've been in the shooting/defensive weapons market long) remember when they first came out. I have noticed that no one has mentioned on this post why the pressure was intense to ban them. Most of the arguments posted are true but never held water and as we know the bullets are still marketed today but without the title or the color of the bullet. Anti-gunners had a hey day with the "Black" talon...this got a few other radicals fired up and since there were racial tensions increasing between police and citizens at the time and this was supposed to be an LE round, Winchester pulled it from the line. Rumors about it being able to pierce ballistic vests and other 'super-bullet' stories drove the prices up to $40+ dollars a box and none of the rumors were true. As far as doctors complaining about them tearing their gloves...I don't know of any doctors that would opt to use their fingers over a pair of hemostats or tweezers to retrieve an object buried in human tissue. If you disagree or have other information feel free to let me know.
    D

    "When in doubt...whip it out!"
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gravediggergravedigger Member Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does Winchester still manufacture Ranger SXT?

    -Marcus

    When buying a new gun, remember, it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any good hollowpoint is just as effective terminally as this PC overrated round. It's terrible when manufacturers wimp to people who don't anything about what they do.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • browning_gunzbrowning_gunz Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe the "black talons", or as so maliciously dubbed "cop-killers" have actually been remarketed by win as the "fail-safe", with some very minor changes...
    winchester, in my belief, got a bad rap on this one from the original marketing name of black talon... if they would have called it something like the "I love Mother Theresa bullet", or the " stop and sniff the flowers and spread love " bullet, they'd have been o.k.


    shut up and shoot.....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JIM STARKJIM STARK Member Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "COP KILLERS" were some sort of teflon coated projectile that would slip through the kevlar vests the leo's wear....Having shot a bunch of "Black Talons", I seriously doubt that one could penetrate a vest..not the way they expand.. just my $.02...

    Edited by - JIM STARK on 08/06/2002 10:07:46
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have long been facinated that the complaint against these bullets was that they worked exactly as they were designed to do. They would penetrate automobile glass, but that is about all, forget Kevlar.

    Which part of "if I have to shoot someone, I do not want them getting up and shooting back," is so hard for courts to understand?

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.