Probably dumb question about 16 ga double bbl

jonk

Short, sweet, to the point.

A Crescent firearms 6010 double bbl 16 ga. made in 1915 would, if in mechanically sound condition, be fine with modern ammo, right? It has regular steel (not Damascus) barrels and I know for a fact my great grandpa used it for hunting into the 50s. This season I just thought it would be a hoot to use it myself for some pheasant or rabbits.

Mk 19

As long as the gun is in mechanically sound condition there would be no reason to not fire your cresent with modern loads. The gun was built in the smokeless era and does not have damascus barrels so you will be fine. Just no slugs, buckshot or steel shot.

only winchesters

Hello jonk: Well actually no. If it was made in 1915, it has short chambers!! 2 9/16 not 2 3/4 iches. so if you want to shoot it, you will have to order "short shells".

Your grandfather could still by short shells in the 1950s. The shot shell manufactures stopped making them in about 1963/64 time frame when they switched from paper to plastic hulls.

Regards Dave

jonk

You know, I just dug it out; my mistake, it is made by central arms, not crescent. (Well it may have been a subsidiary of Crescent, or? One of their hardware store guns? I wrote NRA some time ago and I know Crescent came up there somewhere)... anyhow, I digress. A 2 3/4" shell chambers with no resistance whatsoever. Am I missing something? I suppose I could measure the chamber length to the end of the chamber.

It was patented in 1915, I suppose it could have been made later; but I'm not sure when.

ladams

The length of a shell is measured when it has been fired and the wad is fully opened. That is why a 3 inch unfired shell will fit in a 2 3/4 chamber, but when it is fired it will be too tight and drastically increase pressure. You could try putting an unfired 3 inch shell in the chamber and see if that fits, because in its unfired state a 3 inch shell is very close to 2 3/4.

jonk

I took a wooden dowel and notched it at 2 9/16" and 2 3/4". I then slowly fed it into the gun until it hit the throat. From the end of the chamber- that is the end end, where the shell's rim would rest, the breechface, with which the rim would be flush, it measures 2 3/4". So the overall length is in fact apparently 2 3/4".

While the chamber length isn't stamped on the gun, let me ask this: my dad has a few double barrel 16 ga guns with nylon stocks made in WW2 or the early 50s- Stevens, Sears, Montgomery Ward, etc. They ARE stamped- 2 3/4" chamber- hammer forged. So if the 2 3/4 inch shell only came out in the mid 60s, how does one explain this?

only winchesters

Hello jonk: Unless your dowel is the same diameter as a 16ga. shells what you found was the end of the forcing cone not the chamber.

2 3/4in shells came out Nov./Dec time frame of 1926. gun manufactures start converting their product line in 1927. IE Winchester changed the Md 12 to 2 3/4 in 1927, but the Md 97 wasn't changed until 1931. Browning didn't change thier Auto-5 untl 1931.

Bottom line when gun makers changed they started stamping barrels with 2 3/4in. Now when the 12 ga. 3in Mag came out in 1935, gun makers started stamping 12 ga. guns with the chamber length, (2 3/4 or 3in).

Your gun has no chamber length stamped on it, take to the closest gunsmith have him check the chamber length, it's a 10 second job. It is highly possible that your grandfather had the gun opened up to 2 3/4 in. Usually a gunsmith would stamp the barrel. Remove the forearm and take the barrels off the frame. Look at the underneath side and see if they are stamped.

Regards Dave

jonk

K....... well the next question would be then, what is the difference between finding the end of the forcing cone and the end of the chamber? So long as the star crimp opened up and ends before the forcing cone, isn't that the issue?

We're approaching 10 posts and I think we're getting close to the answer... the only gunsmith locally is at Gander Mountain, I would wonder if they would be able to manage it? And what they would charge? Brownells sells the gauge and it is only 20 bucks.

There are no marks underneath the forearm or visible when removing the barrel other than the serial.

only winchesters

Hi Jonk: Well if you have a Gander Mt. close by they will have a chamber gauge. Just take your gun in and tell them you need shells, but dont know if you can use 2 3/4 or need short shells in your gun. they should do it FREE.

The chamber of a shotgun has a diameter, the bore has a diameter, the bore diameter is smaller than the chamber. The forcing cone is the spot between the two. It a taper down area. When you put a 2 3/4in. shell in a 2 9/16 chamber or a 3in. shell in a 2 3/4in chamber, and fire the shell, the crimped area opens up and lies in the forcing cone area, reducing that diameter smaller than the bore. (the thickness of the plastic). Now the shot colum has to travel thru the forcing cone area, which is now smaller than the bore, causing a spile in pressure. This increase can cause the barrels to split or ruture over time.

Example: If the chamber is .650 the bore is .630 you have a .020 taper. since the plastic hull is about .020 thick, you have eliminated the taper. It's like trying to put 10 lbs of slime into a 5 lbs bag!! Something is going to give.

Anyway Gander should have short shells!! Or they can order you some.

Regards Dave

jonk

Thanks Dave. I think I'll just run it over to them tomorrow; still, I really do think, even given my homemade measurement, it is 2 3/4". I measured from the part where the forcing cone starts to the end of the chamber. But I'll have peace of mind at least.

select-fire

These sell in pairs for the cost listed. Put em' inside your 16 and shoot 28 gauge.. I use .410's in a 12..
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84172722