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Re: Cap 'n Ball Revolver

Hunter4lifeHunter4life Member Posts: 45 ✭✭
edited August 2002 in Ask the Experts
Thanks to everyone for your responses.

I still haven't had the time to play
with my new toy...Can't wait!
Can anyone tell me why round balls are
never listed with a grain weight, just a Dia.?
what is the approx weight of a .451 round soft
lead ball?
Also, I have a revolver...now i need a rifle.
How unpleasant is a cal. in the mid to upper
.60's to shoot? I want something ridiculously
big...but i want to enjoy shooting it too.

Thanks again for your responses, Craig
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Comments

  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hunter I don't think that there is anyone who shot a black powder rifle with a caliber in the upper 60's that survived to tell how it was. Sorry, couldn't resist. Large caliber bp rifles do not recoil as heavily as smokless powder center fire rilfes because of the different pressure curve as the powder burns. Thus, bp rifles give more of a shove than a kick. An upper 60's will give you quite a shove. For me it would not be fun, but neither is 150 grains of pyrodex in an in line.

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You've got a wide world of choices in a BP rifle. Small caliber flint and percussion Pennsylvania long rifles were very accurate but when settlers moved west the 50 cal became more useful and are popular today for hunting big game. I doubt if a grizzly could stand up to a heavily charged 50.
    A major question should be whether you want a reproduction of an original old civilian gun, a military gun or one of todays' inline, shotgun primer powered hotshots.
    I believe the biggest bore rifled long arms available are copies of .577 Springfield and Enfield Minie Ball Civil War muskets but they're not the most powerful BP long arms.
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  • mazo kidmazo kid Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi H4L, I did some weighing for you......451 RB will go around 138-140 gr. If you want something with a bit more power, you can shoot conical bullets in your revolver and they work great. Mine weigh in at 204 gr. I shoot a Trade gun in 20 ga. (.60), it's a smoothbore and I don't usually don't load much over 80 gr. ffg. in it and it is not that bad for recoil. It is also a very light gun. The 12 ga. M/L shotguns loaded with RB are approx. .74 cal. if memory serves me. Emery
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The biggest caliber bp musket or rifle in mass production in the last 200 years was the English Brown Bess, used to shoot uppity Minutemen in Massachusetts and used by Mexicans to shoot Texans at the Alamo. It was .75 flintlock smoothbore, and was introduced around 1750. Since then, calibers have steadily gone down in size. I don't know of any rifle ever produced that was .60 or above. Lewis and Clark carried the first military longarm with a rifled bore, and it was .54 caliber. It was the most lethal firearm of it's day. I have killed deer with a .50 and with a .58, and it seems like you could load up a .54 with, maybe 150 gr. of powder and have a field day against the griz. However, Lewis and Clark record having to shoot a griz 7 and 8 times to knock him down and out, and nearly got some men killed in wild fights with griz. Maybe the grizzlies were bigger in 1805. As was posted above, the biggest rifles available today are civil war reproductions in .58. These are gorgeous rifles with plenty of power to hunt deer or, probably black bear, yet they recommend only about 60-70 gr. of powder for them. They don't kick too much. Whether you could put a huge load, 150 gr. let's say, and safely shoot it and get a big increase in power, I don't know. These guns shoot a lead brick minie ball of about 450 gr. and will work well on deer. The Navy Arms catalog advertises all of the guns I have mentioned and they have great color photos and descriptions. I think they have your pistol in there, too, all their guns are made in Italy.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To get back to your original query, if you want something .60 or over you have to use a smoothbore. You can get the Brown Bess, or the Charleville musket which is .69. Both of them are flintlocks, I don't know if you want to mess with that. As mazo kid was saying, you can get a shotgun and shoot round ball. Then you can still use percussion. My chart shows the 12 gauge as .729 cal. The round ball is 650gr and using 102 grains of powder gives 1330 fps and 2200 ft lbs. That is astronomical energy for black powder. I bet a couple of .730 round balls would give Mr. Grizzly some heartburn. The Navy Arms shotgun is 7and 1/2 lbs which is much lighter than the bp rifles so that might kick pretty good. Now, if you really want to be a man among men, get the 10 gauge. You get a .775 shooting a 670 gr round ball with 130 gr of black powder at 1370 fps. My book doesn't give energy for the 10 gauge, when they fired it probably broke the scale. If you want the accuracy of a rifle the civil war replicas are great. You can shoot them all day, not much kick plus they get good ignition with the big musket caps. I am showing the .570 Minie at 510 gr with 69 grains of powder muzzle velocity of 963 fps and energy of 1050ft lbs. Probably you can up the powder to increase the energy, better check with the manufacturer.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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  • Hunter4lifeHunter4life Member Posts: 45 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wow great site !! Thanks guys, I ALWAYS find
    the info i need!!!
    It seems I always get into something...go over-
    board, get the best crap modern technology has
    to offer...then go backwards all the way to
    the beginning. Did it with fishing, now i'm
    doing it with my hunting.
    I've considerd the Brown Bess, for my flintlock-
    smoothbore needs, and the Kentucky rifles seem
    adequate for my rifled barrel percussion desires.
    I finally did get to the range and my revolver
    performed flawlessly. I got a little more accuracy
    out of it than i anticipated :-)I have been using the
    Pyrodex pellets because it seemed like an easier way
    to start, but i'd like to go with BP, just because
    that is the 'ol way of doing things. Is there much
    difference between BP and Pyrodex, balistically
    speaking? And what of the corosive nature of BP?
    is it even worth useing when numerous "clean" subs-
    titutes are available? How is the accuracy of the
    smoothbores? I wouldn't want to risk an unlean kill
    just for my own satisfaction of doing it the old way!!
    Thanks again for all your help
    Craig
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hunter, you probably would enjoy the Dixie Gun Works catalog. They sell Thompson/Center, and Navy Arms, and CVA and Ruger, they sell everything. They don't have the pretty color pictures like Navy Arms, they have grainy black and white. But there is so much information in there. It is about 400 pages thick. Lots of bp ballistics, bullet molds, hats worn in 1750,every historical book that has to do with a black powder weapon, everything. When I am bored, I sit down and read it. Strictly black powder. Union City Tenn., they have a web site.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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