Few questions about Rifles I am thinking of gettin

Dangerous T

IN 7.62x51 caliber I m considering getting:
1) G3 clones. Which ones are any good? Are Ohio Rapid Fire OK?
I know that PTR-91 is superb but rather expensive. I keep hearing mixed review about Century made CETME.
2) Saiga 308. I know they are cheap but just how good are they in terms of accuracy. Can they come even close to CETME and G3?
3) I would LOVE to have an M1A, but unless I get a Polytech M14, I cant afford it.
4) FN/FAL. I keep seeing them on gunbroker for 800 bucks. not too much. However, just how good are they? I have red that Israely got rid of them because the FN/FAL was too sensitive to sand. Just how good are they. I know that DSArms ones are great, but for the same price I can get an M1A:-)

In 5.56x45 I am considering getting:
1) AR180B. Just how good and accurate is it? Does it lack of heavy barrel affects its usability any?
2) Saiga 223 in 20.5 barrel. I know it should be reliable and all, but just HOW ACCURATE it is compared to lets say AR180B?
3) Vector arms V93. I know it is expensive, but does the price justifies its performance and reliability?
4) Century Arms Galil. Actually my wife wants it. I know that it is made on machined receiver. I know that Century has mixed reputation for their guns. ANyone has any info on it?
5) Mak90 in 5.56 or any other chinese guns. How good are they? What mags do they take?

I want to say upfront that I am NOT interested in any AR style rifles, and I already have Yugo M70 and Norinco Hunter, basically I do not need a 7.62x39 rifle

iwannausername

Get the FAL - 90+ countries can't be wrong, even if the Israelis didn't put sand cuts in all the places they were specified...

CobrayKid

+1 FN FAL

Dangerous T

Ok, which one? DSArms are WAY to expensive. I can't afford 1400 for a rifle. Century Arms one? How good are those?

tsavo303

Ohio Rapid Fire makes good stuff. forget the CETME, chinese aks are the best made for the $, check out the used AKs on this site and sometimes you can find a deal on a well built on from a custom builder. Sagias are really good too
m1-a is my fav

Dangerous T

I actually was considering ORF G3, though it is 600 bucks now and out of stock, I heard they will be raising the price. Still, even at $700 a well made G3 clone is worth it.

Oh, yeah. I fired M1A, I LOVED IT. But the price for that thing is excessive. I can't afford $1500 rifle. If I could find a Polytec M14 (Chinese) for about $500, I would grab it at once and then have a local, US armory work on the receiver:-)

Saiga. I heard mixed reviews. I know that it is $400 and is reliable.
However, from what I have heard, the accuracy is not too good: 2MOA at 50M with Hornandy ammo (article Saiga308 vs Cetme). I can keep 2.5MOA with my Norinco Hunter at that range. Furthermore, Saiga's receiver is only 1mm long. Is that enough to handle a recoil of 308 cartrige? I doubt it, especially since PTR91 has 1.5mm thick receiver.

tsavo303

saigas will have better accuracy than alomst all aks. you have to try different ammo with any rifle.
I would go for the FAL before the g3. g3 is accurate , but much harder to shoot accuratly than an m1-a.
accuracy and cost are usually related in semi-autos[:)]
have fun and good luck. keep in mind cost of ammo and mags also

ern98

Back before Calif went crazy I had Enterpise Arms of Irwindale, Ca. put a L1A1 kit up on one of their Fal type receivers. Two of my friends like what they made me so they bought STG58 kits and a couple of Imbel receivers and had Enterprise build them up for them. I don't know if Enterprise is still there but you might nose around for a good shop to build up a kit for you. All three of the rifles we did that way were great, both in functioning and accuracy wise. The key here being a shop with a good rep for Fals.

Dangerous T

Well, I agree that it is easier to shoot M1A/M14, no issues about it. However, ORF G3 - about $700 bucks. Saiga 308 - $400, PTR91-$1000, DSArms STG58 $1300. M1A - $1300. I doubt that ORF G3 is half as accurate as M1A or STG58. I do NOT doubt, however, that it is TWICE as accurate as Saiga 308. Russians who tester Saiga 308 with 20.5 inch barrel found that it creates 2.3-2.7 MOA, while Vepr 308 managed 1.8-2.0 MOA. Both used WOLF ammo. I find that 2.0 MOA is a minimal accuracy acceptable in a 308 Caliber. So, basically, I am looking for a 1.0 - 1.8 MOA weapon. By all reports a G3, PTR 91, STG58 and M1A all fit into that category. The problem is, once again the prise. Out of those ORF G3 is the cheapest. The Century Arms FAL is very close to it in price. BUt I do not know just how good Century Arms FALs are.
As far as ammunition: I will be using Wolf, Silver Bear and Surplus ammo.
As far as Mags go: Saiga 308 mags are VERY expensive. The cheapes mags are G3/CETME.

Now, CETME and G3 are very similar internally. Is there a reason why I should avoid Century Arms Cetme? Anything I can do to insure that I get a good rifle? I see them for about $500 here.

Mossbergboogie

saiga going to be the way to go for you cheap and reliable but kinda fugly.

CobrayKid

I built my FAL (STG on Imbel) for a total cost of about 600. But that was a few years ago, seems receivers and kits have gone up in price a little. Maybe you should consider building something.

Wehrmacht_45

Whatever you get....avoid Hesse/Vulcan at all cost. Utter junk.

Dangerous T

Well, to be honest, I have NO experience in building weapons, neither to I have a press (to press a barrel into a trunion). Otherwise, I would have bought a G3 kit and a JLD receiver and would have build it myself. But G3/CETME are very hard to build. Without ANY experience I am not sure I want to spend $700 for something that I may not even be able to get done right...

fastcarsgofast

Why not a Mini 14 in .223?

Dangerous T

Because, from what I red, Mini14 is worse then Saiga for TWICE the price

Wehrmacht_45

Mini 14s are reliable with good mags(not cheapo no namers), but suffer from poor accuracy. The Saiga is not known for being a tackdriver either(AK)

Dangerous T

Well, exactly. Saiga 223 is as accurate as Mini14, for HALF the price. Now, on saiga, I put in a bullet guide, a flashhider and a trigger group and I then can use a Galil Mags, which are pretty cheap:-). I do not like Mini 14 at all. I handled it, didn't like it. Saiga is OK. Not as fine of a rifle to hold in 223 as AR180B or Vector Arms V-93. But is Ok!

TWalker

I am VERY happy with my Saigas in .308 and .223 caliber. Accuracy is quite good(3 inches in .308 with iron sights) for an AK type weapon. In the .223 I get 1.5 inch or better groups most of the time using a scope. I also own an FAL type .308 with a Century Arms receiver. Some people may own these that are of poor quality, but mine is first rate, really good quality, and with a scope I can shoot 2 inch groups all day. I'm keeping all of mine, but if I were buying one today it would be a Saiga in .308 with the shorter barrel and synthetic stock. I'd mount a Leupold 1.5-5 scope and feel ready for almost anything, from hunting to home protection.

fastcarsgofast

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[:D]

Seriously though. Most people who trash the Mini 14 are not that familiar with them or they get one and expect it to be what it isn't. If you want a good dependable rifle that will consistently hit pie plates at 200 yards with open sights then this is your rifle. If you want an out of the box tack driver then you're out of luck. And you can ignore all those people that say you can't get reliable after market mags. Just buy the John Mason mags and you can't go wrong. I of course have never had any after market give me problems. Guess I'm just lucky.

Seriously go look at them. Pick one up, Borrow one from a friend and try it. You might be surprised at how much you like it.

fastcarsgofast

quote:Originally posted by fastcarsgofast
Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[:D]

Seriously though. Most people who trash the Mini 14 are not that familiar with them or they get one and expect it to be what it isn't. If you want a good dependable rifle that will consistently hit pie plates at 200 yards with open sights then this is your rifle. If you want an out of the box tack driver then you're out of luck. And you can ignore all those people that say you can't get reliable after market mags. Just buy the John Mason mags and you can't go wrong. I of course have never had any after market give me problems. Guess I'm just lucky.

Seriously go look at them. Pick one up, Borrow one from a friend and try it. You might be surprised at how much you like it.
Well nevermind I see you posted that you have handled one while I was typing.

JustC

Do the right thing and buy the HK91,.....you won't be sorry.

as for the 5.56/223 rifle,..buy an AR type and never look back.

dfletcher

Many of the guns you reference - the FAL, the CETME, the Chinese M1A & Century assembled guns - can be a hit or miss proposition and it takes a discerning eye to know the difference between good & bad.

I'm certain you can buy a great Enterprise receivered FAL for probably $650.00. You can also end up with a gun that doesn't shoot worth a darn and that's also the case with the Chinese M1As. When a FAL is being assembled the end product depends not only on the quality of the parts but the skill of the person doing the assembly.

It's not clear to me if you intend to buy one gun in 308 & another in 223. If that's so I'd suggest that instead of buying a pair of $600.00 rifles you but one really good one that represents your best choice.

I've recently bought the DSA STG58 and a Springfield M1A Loaded and in doing so got good solid rifles that work well.

As someone once said to me regarding FALs, if you have to ask how to tell the difference between a good one & a bad one you probably shouldn't take the chance. If you do, I'd say buy at a local store that knows you & will make the deal right if there's a problem.