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Possible 1911 switch during waiting period?

ratkillingdogratkillingdog Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
edited November 2010 in Ask the Experts
I have good sons. I was an MP in Vietnam and my boys keep bringing me 1911's as mementos. The latest is one my youngest son took on trade for some tax work. He is a good shooter, but not experienced in gun trading. The guy represented it as military issue and the boy didn't look it over very well. According to him they took it to a CA. firearms dealer to do the sale and the guy at the counter remarked, "Wow, a Springfield." They held the gun during the background check and when my son picked it up it turned out to be an Essex. My son can't say for sure if it is or is not the same gun. Is there any way the dealer could have pulled a switch on him? He didn't get hurt on the trade even if it isn't a Springfield but that's not the point.

Oh yeh, the guy he made the trade with claimed to be a brother that served in Vietnam, but the paperwork shows him born in 1958, which would make him about 12 yrs old. I probably won't tell my son but I have this wannabe liars phone number.

Comments

  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are two flavors of "Springfield" associated with 1911's. The original Springfield Armory made a limited number, (30,000+) in 1914 & 15.

    The commercial outfit who usurped the Springfield Armory name has been making variations based on the the 1911A1 not 1911 since the mid 80's approximately.

    A original 1911 Springfield Armory pistol would be worth a fair amount to a collector, if it was arsenal original and in Very Good condition.
  • mk19mk19 Member Posts: 92 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The CA state DROS will have the SN of the pistol along with the 4473, the SN would have been placed on this paperwork upon the time of sale, if the SN is different then you have a switched pistol.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If he never logged the #'s check back with the guy he got it from on the tax work. The SN # should be registered somewhere to verify...

    Its a good idea to take images of all guns and #'s for insurance purposes.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello This is what Might have happened. As far as I know Essex never made complete pistols but did make frames. Therefor every ESSEX frame will need a Slide of some kind. There were LOADS of surplus 1911 parts because the 1968 GCA forbid selling surplus complete pistols . So I think someone made a parts gun with Springfield slide and Essex frame . The clerk saw the Springfield Slide made his comment and when the log book ans sales slip was filled out. As a Dealer YOU have to call the brand of pistol by the FRAME MAKERS BRAND. end of storyor as others have stated dealer did a slight of hand and is a thief[:(!][V]. Does the pistol you have Essex frame and Springfield slide [?][?]

    EDITas you said it is the thought that counts . Thanks for the update . However if the pistol had a Springfield slide I would say it was a 95% chance that this was the pistol that your son bought .With it being an unmarked aftermarket slide I am more inclined to think there might have been some hanky pankey going on .at least I would follow up with original seller Etc. I hope this has a happy ending.
  • ratkillingdogratkillingdog Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    Hello This is what Might have happened. As far as I know Essex never made complete pistols but did make frames. Therefor every ESSEX frame will need a Slide of some kind. There were LOADS of surplus 1911 parts because the 1968 GCA forbid selling surplus complete pistols . So I think someone made a parts gun with Springfield slide and Essex frame . The clerk saw the Springfield Slide made his comment and when the log book ans sales slip was filled out. As a Dealer YOU have to call the brand of pistol by the FRAME MAKERS BRAND. end of storyor as others have stated dealer did a slight of hand and is a thief[:(!][V]. Does the pistol you have Essex frame and Springfield slide [?][?]

    My son brought me a parts gun. It is an Essex frame with an unmarked slide and a Colt barrel. The value of the gun to me is what was in his heart. He did not take note of the serial number or even look it over very well before he turned it over to the dealer for the holding period. I just need to match the serial number with the previous owner and it's done. I don't care about having more Springfields, but I won't walk away without being satisfied either. Either the guy at the counter was incredibly inexperienced or it's not the same gun that went in the shop. A friend has a federal license or maybe the Ca. DOJ has a record that can match the previous name and number.
  • Grunt2Grunt2 Member Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A bit off topic...but as a Nam vet myself...I had to answer your comment..
    A Nam vet born in 1958 would be pushing it ...just a bit...But...PFC Gary L Hall (born 26 July 1956 in Covington KY) was KIA in Nam on 15 May 1975...Panel #1W line 130 on The Wall...The oldest I have seen was Leroy P. Campbell born 10 January 1917...KIA 6 November 1966....Panel 12E line 32...
    Thank you for your service..and congratulations for having good sons...

    quote:Originally posted by ratkillingdog
    I have good sons. I was an MP in Vietnam and my boys keep bringing me 1911's as mementos. The latest is one my youngest son took on trade for some tax work. He is a good shooter, but not experienced in gun trading. The guy represented it as military issue and the boy didn't look it over very well. According to him they took it to a CA. firearms dealer to do the sale and the guy at the counter remarked, "Wow, a Springfield." They held the gun during the background check and when my son picked it up it turned out to be an Essex. My son can't say for sure if it is or is not the same gun. Is there any way the dealer could have pulled a switch on him? He didn't get hurt on the trade even if it isn't a Springfield but that's not the point.

    Oh yeh, the guy he made the trade with claimed to be a brother that served in Vietnam, but the paperwork shows him born in 1958, which would make him about 12 yrs old. I probably won't tell my son but I have this wannabe liars phone number.
    Retired LEO
    Combat Vet VN
    D.A.V Life Member
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