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Shipping Handguns Part 2

ATFATF Member Posts: 11,683 ✭✭✭
edited April 2004 in Ask the Experts
us55840,I don't know where you get your info but it's wrong except for certain States.
[:)][:(]

Eagle_Guns.gif
Limerick.gif

Right where I wanna be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!






ATF,Eagle Guns
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Comments

  • HangfireHangfire Member Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree Art!!!. Gotta be totally unread or a troll.

    Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob


    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=106300
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  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SEEMS EVERY MONTH OR SO WE GET AN "EXPERT" WHO NEEDS TO TELL US HOW DUMB WE ARE AND HOW SMART THEY ARE. DON'T KNOW HOW WE GOT ALONG WITHOUT THEM.

    I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
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  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ATF, Thanks for opening up this topic again. I was sorry to see it locked with the last post on the subject being contrary to BATF written guidelines. Those of us who are ffl dealers have a copy of ATF P 1500.4, entitled Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide. On page 136, items (B8) and (B9) the point is covered in very understandable language. It says an unlicensed individual can ship a handgun to a ffl dealer in another state. State laws may prohibit this but the Federal Statutes and regulations don't prohibit it. The late Fred Ewalt, a nationally recognized expert on Springfields referred to the firearms forums as "The Mother of Misinformation". The thread on unlicensed persons shipping handguns confirms that he was right on the money.
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  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote: posted by US55840:
    There are some provisions for the shipment of firearms, but you must understand that a handgun transfer can only happen between dealers in two different states. If a person were shipping to a repair facility and the handgun is to be return to the same person, it is allowable. Since this is a transfer of ownership, across state lines, it must be shipped dealer to dealer.

    Here is another error. As far as the regulations go, ownership has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer of firearms. The law and regulations only address possession. Ownership is not mentioned.
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  • boltthrowerboltthrower Member Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Or, theres the possibility that there are disinformation junkies among the ranks, which then puts into question who are really the ones lacking the expert knowledge. Sometimes the answer to that one isnt as clear cut as one would think...Just something to consider.
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  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    wrong[xx(]

    I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
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  • stalion10stalion10 Member Posts: 336 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    just leave it alone guys, he'll never get it. you know the type(a know it all) never wrong even when proved wrong!!!!!!!!!! always changes the story...........were is a c& p of his original post Posted - 04/22/2004 : 2:40:28 PM

    There seems to be some confusion on shipping of handguns. Handguns must be shipped dealer to dealer, when shipping across state lines. A non licensed person cannot transfer a handgun out of state. No different than a dealer cannot sell a handgun to a non licensed person from another state. These transfers must go dealer to dealer.


    it's not the type of gun you have in the heat of a battle that counts, only if you have enough ammo for it, lets face it, a gun without ammo is only as good as a base ball bat!!
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  • bigtirebigtire Member Posts: 24,800
    edited November -1
    What if the guy were to show up on your doorstep? I have sold many guns to FFL holders and I cannot ever remember a case in which I was asked what state I was a resident of. Or even asked to show my drivers license for that mater. The only differnce is the shipping of the handgun. The transfer of ownership is done by the recieving FFL. us55840 is absolutely wrong on this.

    (B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
    purchaser's own state? [Back]


    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
    used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
    carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

    Again! The transfer of ownership is handled by the Recieving FFL.



    MOLON LABE!
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  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    OK folk, here is the deal and hope this clears the whole mess up. Damn sorry said anything! [xx(][xx(]

    Private individual w/o FFL 'Joe' in CA sells a handgun on GB to 'Sam' in another state. 'Sam' comes in an wants the gun shipped to us (as an FFL holder) so ownership can be transfered to him.

    Herein is the problem and checked with the ATF to clarify. We must have a copy of an FFL from the person or party sending us the handgun from out of state in order to log it into our gun log book and then do the 4473 transfer to the buyer and show the ownership change in the gun log book.

    The shipping doesn't matter - TO LEGALLY TRANSFER OWNERSHIP OF A HANDGUN ACROSS STATE LINES IT MUST TAKE PLACE FROM FFL HOLDER TO FFL HOLDER. A person without a FFL cannot TRANSFER ownership of a handgun out of state by federal law.

    This is as I read the Federal Regulations and as clearly stated by the ATF. IF there is something missing here, please clarify for me.

    Thank you.






    The references you provided in 27CFR 178.29 through 178.32 (now 478.29 through 478.32) do not say or imply that handguns must be shipped by a licensee. As a matter of fact, handguns are not specifically mentioned in any of the referenced sections. The fact remains that Federal law does not require shipment of handguns by a licensee and the BATF FAQ's in the "green book" state that it is not necessary. And again I say, ownership has nothing to do with it. The regulations address transfer of possession. ALso, it is not necessary to log an FFL number in the acquisition columns of your "bound book". You can enter either the name and address or the name and FFL number.
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  • Ronald J. SnowRonald J. Snow Member Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was unaware that Oscar Mayer (Division of Kraft) had a facility in Aberdeen, SD. Sorry to use the space but: B-O-L-O-G-N-A has a name.
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