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Weapons in the Military
Sparty_76
Member Posts: 714 ✭✭
I have never been in the military but both my parents were (may they rest in peace). My father and mother were both Korean War Vets. All my Uncles were WWII vets. I was born a couple years to late to go to Vietnam. I have read a lot of US military history.
I was just wondering how the military decided who got what weapon in the infantry. In WWII could you request a M-1 rifle or the M-1 carbine or visa versa? How did someone get a "Tommy gun, grease gun, or BAR? I did not see many BARS carried by the airborne troopers in Band of Brothers and think I heard once only the biggest guys were chosen for the BAR, both examples make sense because of the guns weight. It makes sense that the snipers were given bolt-action 1903 Springfield with scopes and were the best shooters (like in Saving Private Ryan ).
In Korea and Vietnam was there much choice either by soldiers? What was the Army or Marines concerning carrying and enemy weapon, like in Vietnam carrying an AK-47?
Just curious?
I was just wondering how the military decided who got what weapon in the infantry. In WWII could you request a M-1 rifle or the M-1 carbine or visa versa? How did someone get a "Tommy gun, grease gun, or BAR? I did not see many BARS carried by the airborne troopers in Band of Brothers and think I heard once only the biggest guys were chosen for the BAR, both examples make sense because of the guns weight. It makes sense that the snipers were given bolt-action 1903 Springfield with scopes and were the best shooters (like in Saving Private Ryan ).
In Korea and Vietnam was there much choice either by soldiers? What was the Army or Marines concerning carrying and enemy weapon, like in Vietnam carrying an AK-47?
Just curious?
Comments
Watching to much TV, will rot your brain, and turn you into a gunshop commando.
I was a supply weenie in the USAF & did much bargaining to go from a GAU to an M14.
There is, are used to be, a document called a T O & E (Table of Organization and Euipment). It told what weapon each member of a squad, co. headquarters, etc. would be armed with. I am sure it was based on lots of experience and study but sometime didn't seem logical. Generally officers would be issued a pistol are carbine and the troops would be issued the service rifle, which was the M1 Rifle in WWII and Korea. Real world situations might cause deviation from this rule.
That's pretty much it.
TO&E was different for different Army Corps.
It was enforced at inspection. Inventory was compared with TO&E. To my knowledge greaseguns were TO&E for truckers, tankers and maybe telephone linemen and communications men.
While they were long out of service in the Army, Gen Maxwell Taylor had a rack of NEW Thompsons for his personal bodyguards.
The several Garand sniper versions and the Springfield A4 were in use at the same time.
Enemy weapons were turned in/confiscated and stored in a Seoul depot
for reissue to insurgents somewhere.
I visited the PI more than once & pretty sure that's what they were issued. Of course, the jungle juice at Studio 1 & the Red Lips bar has fogged my memory a bit.
Used the same thing a few years later chasing rabbits around Nellis AFB. I think that's the last time I used an M16 type. Never did much care for them
It starts like Herschel said with the TO&E. Officers carry a pistol PSG's and squad leaders a carbine. Each PLT is four squads, three rifle squads and one squad is weapons. Weapons squad(11 men) is broken into three gun teams. Each has a gunner, AG and ammo bearer. The gunner has the MG(M60 when I was in, M240 now)and he carries a pistol. The AG and AB carry a rifle. Frequently, each gun team operates with a squad.
Within each squad(11 men) there is a Saw, an M203(grenade launcher) and you might have a sniper embedded in your platoon or attached. He is usually someone that has gone through a sniper course. You don't just get issued a sniper rifle. Saw and Lt. MG gunners are picked by ability to shoot first then can they carry the gun. The AG frequently ends up carrying the gun half the time. Same with M203 but he gets no tradeoff. Tommygun, greasegun, M1 carbine all qualify as a carbine.
What you have(in the Army anyways)is 'inventory' to match meet mission needs.
Now, here how it changed when I was in. As an officer do you want just a pistol? No. You go in and get a rifle or carbine. Depending on which you liked. The AG didn't need a full rifle getting in the way, they usually got a carbine instead of a rifle. If one squad went through SOT they got MP5's for building clearing or SOT pistols. This is not a regular infantry unit, I'm talking about Rangers. But, to a lesser degree regular infantry guys get to swap out for more 'mission friendly' equipment if they have it available. It can be a real pain in the butt to try to work a full length rifle in an unknown building while you are taking it down. Ask any Marine, 10th Mtn, 82nd, 24th, guy what he wants to work a building with and they will say the shortest highest capacity weapon they can get. That has enough oomph! The 9mm has proven to be "less than optimal". The .45's are still out there because of that.
This has been found out through numerous MOUT training sessions in the U.S. You want a full blown rifle in the open...you don't want that in tight quarters. so the need has arisen for variations of the standard weapons.
Getting back to your "Band of Brothers" question about Tommyguns. Even though they were issued to someone on the frontline didn't mean they went back when that person was killed or wounded. Frequently, the weapon was picked up by a PLT member and the replacements came to the front line with one. The PLT or CO. CMDR had to okay it. They knew the value of them but also the pitfalls. Too many tommyguns and some started going back. I personally don't think their benefits outweigh their negatives.
All this is just an infantry platoons situation. Of all the other units out there, there are different criteria. So that is why you will see a lot of variation. -Hope that sheds a little light on this subject.