Garand: Match Grade

Virginia Mil

I bought last week a beautiful M1 from a very reputable, high quality gun shop, that promoted it as "match grade". It has a beautiful birch stock, a glass bedded receiver, an NM rear sight, a tuned trigger pull, etc. The question comes up with regard to the barrel. It is marked as LMR (Line Material Company)and dated 10/54, with no other significant markings. The portion exposed behind the front sight has the fine tooling "threads" like I've seen on wartime Walther P38's. But the big perplexing deal is it will only accept .308's, as the 30-06 sticks out by one half inch. So is this an LMR 30-06 barrel with the old Navy .308 insert, or did International Harvester (via LMR) make a .308 barrel in the 50's? Haven't shot it as want to return it if all is wrong, but don't want to pass up a unique rifle. Any thoughts or suggestions? [?]

dcinffxva

I had a similar situation. Here are the replies to my post.

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223838&SearchTerms=Garand

The pics on the link were dead, so here are a couple showing the differences in mine.

nmyers

Subsequent to our last discussion of this topic, I spoke to The Expert on the subject of military M1 .308 conversions. He told me that a commercial company in Italy converted a number of rifles by shortening them from the breech end, & a small quantity was imported into the US. I believe this is what dc has; you haven't given us enough information to determine if that is what you have.

M1 rifles accurized by the military are called "National Match". The term "match grade" is fluff; it means whatever the person applying that label wants it to mean. The buyer infers that it means "accurized", but the accuracy of the rifle depends upon the skill of the person working on it.

While this type of rifle was used for competition 20-30 years ago, it is rarely used today. And, it is definitely not "unique" or collectible. But, you bought it believing it was a .30-06; if it meets your needs (& you are happy with a .308 ---- or maybe a 7.62 mm NATO, which is not the same), then you may want to keep it.

Neal

Herschel

Neal, I was shooting in military hipower competition from 1958 and on until use of the M1 was discontinued by the Army. I never heard of an M1 Rifle that was accurized by the military being referred to as a "National Match". That description only applied to match grade M1 Rifles that were built as match rifles, or rebuilt as match rifles, by Springfield Armory. Later on Rock Island Arsenal manufactured the National Match M-14's. While it is apparently legal for a private company to name it's self "Springfield Armory" and for every company to designate a model of their product "National Match" this practice has already and will in the future cause confusion among shooters and collectors. Some of the match grade rifles assembled by the military armorers used NM grade parts and equaled or exceeded the accuracy of the true National Match rifles but they were not National Match rifles. I certainly agree that the term "match grade" is fluff.

bobski

guns made for 308 for navy use were designated M2 and are given as awards to navy shooters to this day.

Virginia Mil

Thank all of you for your good input. So far I have determined that the barrel length is the same as an "ordinary" M1; that there are no visible 7.62 markings on the barrell (but I am going to remove the foregrip to make sure there are no markings on top); and there is no 7.62 block in the magazine well. So my still open question is how (and hopefully, by whom) was this Garand converted to 7.62/.308. Was it done by an insert or is this a 7.62 barrel? Just love mysteries.[^]

nmyers

LMR never, ever, made barrels in 7.62mm. So, if it is normal length, then it may well have a chamber insert. A gunsmith will have a borelight that can determine that.

All service made/contracted conversions were marked with the new chambering.

Neal

*****The US military's first attempt at converting M1 rifles to 7.62mm was with a chamber insert. This proved unsatisfactory, as the insert would pop out at inopportune times, rendering the rifle useless. That's when the Navy decided to convert THEIR rifles by having them fitted with newly-made barrels chambered in 7.62mm; that type conversion worked quite well.

One way or another, you need to know the exact chamber of the rifle. If the place that sold it to you doesn't have a gunsmith's fiber optic boresight, &/or won't make a cast of the chamber, you would be well advised to return it.

Let me repeat! .308 WIN & 7.62mm are not the same!

Neal

Virginia Mil

Neal, if an insert, is that terribly detrimental to its shooting quality or value? I've stared in the chamber using a gooseneck bore light, and just don't know how to discern insert or not.

beachmaster73

The Navy MKII mod 1 7.62NATO all had SA barrels dated 65 or 66. I'd have to think yours just has an insert and was "bubba rigged" to shoot 7.62NATO out of a 30-06 barrel. Any of the Navy Matchservice rifles built at NWS Crane Indiana will shoot rings around a normal National Match M1. You just have to find one.Beach.

Virginia Mil

Thanks to all for your advice. I am meeting tomorrow with the selling dealer, who has (over the phone) offered my money back or to trade for another Garand. Either offer I would take, but I really like the gun with its beautiful birch stock, National Match rear sight, tuned trigger and glass bedded receiver. You have convinced me that this gun has a .308 insert done by a gunsmith (probably the one that made the other modifications), so what does the insert do to the value or shootability? (My last question, I promise.)[8]

beachmaster73

Virginia Mil.....it's not a match rifle and it's not original. You can't shoot it in any CMP J C Garand Match in the country and its not going to be competitive in any service rifle match you enter. The reason the Navy got rid of the 7.62 NATO inserts is that they had the tendancy to eject with a casing at inopportune times. I'd say just because it has a pretty stock is no reason to spend top dollar on an M1 of very questionable value and reliability. If you really want a 7.62NATO M1 look around for a NWS Crane Indiana built Service Match MKII Mod 1 M1......they are worth the top dollar you pay for them. Get you money back on this one.Beach

P.S. Scott Duff sometimes has Navy M1's for sale....but they are hard to find.