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Wesson&Leavitt/Haaken-Plomdeur
MarcelloB
Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
Hello all
I'm looking for information about a possible joint venture or collaboration between the Massachussetts Arms Co and the Li?ge gunmaker Charles Haaken-Plomdeur.
In 1850, Haaken issued a revolver that was identical to the Wesson&Leavitt, including the inner gear mechanism. he was granted a Belgian patent for that gun. The only difference was that the barrel lug was locked to the cylinder arbor by means of a spring-loaded head that had to be pulled forward, instead of the hooked ring like on the W&L. In 1853, Haaken inproved his system by replacing the Edwin Wesson gear by a classical ratchet and hand system.The only specimen known to be in existence today is an unfinished one, still in the white and without grip wood, that is in the Li?ge Museum of Arms and features the 1853 improvements.
Haaken also issued a revolving carbine based on the same pattern. Of that carbine are at least two known specimens remaining, of which one is in the Li?ge museum and an identical one in the Cody museum at Cody, Wyoming. Both bear the Li?ge proofmarks but no maker's name, while the unfinished revolver is signed by Haaken. Both the carbine and the unfinished revolver were given to the Li?ge museum by Haaken's son.
Since the unsigned carbine that is in the Cody museum is identical in all points to the one in Li?ge, I assume it has been made by Haaken as well. So far I have found no traces of a carbine issued by the Mass Arms Co on the W&L pattern.
I asked the Cody museum for more details and additional pictures, but they did not reply.
With some fellow collectors in Belgium we are trying to find traces of any contacts between the Mass. Arms Co (or maybe D. Leavitt or D.B. Wesson) and Charles Haaken. The Haaken copy is too close to the original to be considered as just a cheap copy. Besides, the different barrel lug catch and the better shaped hammer head are real improvements.
There is no trace in Belgium of any lawsuit for patent infringment, but that doesn't mean anything since W&L had not applied for patents in Belgium, so complaints would have been rejected.
It also should be noted that, unlike the revolver, the carbine has a flat cylinder front face instead of a convex one. Within a few days I'll know which inner mechanism it features - the E.Wesson gears or the 1853 Haaken inprovements.
Would anyone in the US know about possible relationship between the Massachussetts Arms Co and Charles Haaken ? Would anyone know about possible other specimens of the Haaken revolver or carbine ? I can provide pictures of both guns if necessary. Thanks a lot.
PS someone on an other forum told me he has briefly had a Haaken-Plomdeur revolver in his possession last year (East Coast). He said the gun looked identical to a W&L except it was marked Haaken-Plomdeur. It was in very nice condition. That makes at least two specimens in existence instead of one.
I'm looking for information about a possible joint venture or collaboration between the Massachussetts Arms Co and the Li?ge gunmaker Charles Haaken-Plomdeur.
In 1850, Haaken issued a revolver that was identical to the Wesson&Leavitt, including the inner gear mechanism. he was granted a Belgian patent for that gun. The only difference was that the barrel lug was locked to the cylinder arbor by means of a spring-loaded head that had to be pulled forward, instead of the hooked ring like on the W&L. In 1853, Haaken inproved his system by replacing the Edwin Wesson gear by a classical ratchet and hand system.The only specimen known to be in existence today is an unfinished one, still in the white and without grip wood, that is in the Li?ge Museum of Arms and features the 1853 improvements.
Haaken also issued a revolving carbine based on the same pattern. Of that carbine are at least two known specimens remaining, of which one is in the Li?ge museum and an identical one in the Cody museum at Cody, Wyoming. Both bear the Li?ge proofmarks but no maker's name, while the unfinished revolver is signed by Haaken. Both the carbine and the unfinished revolver were given to the Li?ge museum by Haaken's son.
Since the unsigned carbine that is in the Cody museum is identical in all points to the one in Li?ge, I assume it has been made by Haaken as well. So far I have found no traces of a carbine issued by the Mass Arms Co on the W&L pattern.
I asked the Cody museum for more details and additional pictures, but they did not reply.
With some fellow collectors in Belgium we are trying to find traces of any contacts between the Mass. Arms Co (or maybe D. Leavitt or D.B. Wesson) and Charles Haaken. The Haaken copy is too close to the original to be considered as just a cheap copy. Besides, the different barrel lug catch and the better shaped hammer head are real improvements.
There is no trace in Belgium of any lawsuit for patent infringment, but that doesn't mean anything since W&L had not applied for patents in Belgium, so complaints would have been rejected.
It also should be noted that, unlike the revolver, the carbine has a flat cylinder front face instead of a convex one. Within a few days I'll know which inner mechanism it features - the E.Wesson gears or the 1853 Haaken inprovements.
Would anyone in the US know about possible relationship between the Massachussetts Arms Co and Charles Haaken ? Would anyone know about possible other specimens of the Haaken revolver or carbine ? I can provide pictures of both guns if necessary. Thanks a lot.
PS someone on an other forum told me he has briefly had a Haaken-Plomdeur revolver in his possession last year (East Coast). He said the gun looked identical to a W&L except it was marked Haaken-Plomdeur. It was in very nice condition. That makes at least two specimens in existence instead of one.