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Need an advice about a gun.
Dangerous T
Member Posts: 119 ✭✭
Looking for a gun in 5.56x45 (.223). However, not many of the guns that I looked at are exactly what I like. In some I do not like the operating system, in others, I do not like accuracy or price.
I am looking to STAY AWAY from AR-15 style direc gas inpungment system. I am equally looking to stay away from AK style Long stroke piston action. What guns do I have left?
1) AR-180B, however, Armalite themselves admited that their rifles have structural weaknes where the pin goes into the lower receiver, in fact they will be making a new AR-180B with metal lower receiver.
This, as well as lack of Heavy Target barrel makes AR180 a questionable choice to me.
2) Vector Arms V-93. By all reports a superb rifle. Except that it is rather expensive, and the price for the magazine is rediculous.
3) Kel Tec SU-16. From what I heard they are pretty flimsy and heat up REALLY fast, and they also lack heavy barrel.
4) AR15. It does have a target barrel. DPMS has a nice 20" target barreled rifles for 850 bucks. Except that they are gas impungement system, a system which I do not trust, and my friend who has an AR has problems with it. gets fouled up REALLY quick
5) Saiga 223. Lacks accuracy
6) Sig 223. Expensive, no chrome lined barrel.
7) Ruger 14. Has magazine problems and is no better then Saiga.
8) Galil. The only galils out there ae Century Arms (thats enough to scare me), and Elite Firearms (Diamond Dave is a crook).
9) Norinco and Arsenal Milled Receivers AKs - a possibility.
10) I know that there are some gas piston ARs, but they are $1500. For that money I would get a V93 and some mags:-).
11) Roberson Arms Vepr 223 20.5 inch barrel. I would buy one, if I could find one:-).
12) Saiga M - not imported yet
13) Daewoo DR200. 1:12 twist is no good on heavier bullets. Otherwise would have bought it.
So, are there any rifles that I am missing? Here are things I would like to see in a rifle:
1) Below $850 in cost
2) Uses AR or AK mags
3) Has heavy barrel of 18-20 inch length.
4) Delay blow back or gas piston operating (short or long stroke).
Any advice would be appreciated.
I am looking to STAY AWAY from AR-15 style direc gas inpungment system. I am equally looking to stay away from AK style Long stroke piston action. What guns do I have left?
1) AR-180B, however, Armalite themselves admited that their rifles have structural weaknes where the pin goes into the lower receiver, in fact they will be making a new AR-180B with metal lower receiver.
This, as well as lack of Heavy Target barrel makes AR180 a questionable choice to me.
2) Vector Arms V-93. By all reports a superb rifle. Except that it is rather expensive, and the price for the magazine is rediculous.
3) Kel Tec SU-16. From what I heard they are pretty flimsy and heat up REALLY fast, and they also lack heavy barrel.
4) AR15. It does have a target barrel. DPMS has a nice 20" target barreled rifles for 850 bucks. Except that they are gas impungement system, a system which I do not trust, and my friend who has an AR has problems with it. gets fouled up REALLY quick
5) Saiga 223. Lacks accuracy
6) Sig 223. Expensive, no chrome lined barrel.
7) Ruger 14. Has magazine problems and is no better then Saiga.
8) Galil. The only galils out there ae Century Arms (thats enough to scare me), and Elite Firearms (Diamond Dave is a crook).
9) Norinco and Arsenal Milled Receivers AKs - a possibility.
10) I know that there are some gas piston ARs, but they are $1500. For that money I would get a V93 and some mags:-).
11) Roberson Arms Vepr 223 20.5 inch barrel. I would buy one, if I could find one:-).
12) Saiga M - not imported yet
13) Daewoo DR200. 1:12 twist is no good on heavier bullets. Otherwise would have bought it.
So, are there any rifles that I am missing? Here are things I would like to see in a rifle:
1) Below $850 in cost
2) Uses AR or AK mags
3) Has heavy barrel of 18-20 inch length.
4) Delay blow back or gas piston operating (short or long stroke).
Any advice would be appreciated.
Comments
For about the same (or close to your $1500 gas piston AR price) you could maybe find a springfield sar4800 in 223 - I've seen a few show up for sale in the past year, both on GB and falfiles.com
I wonder if there is a way to put an AR style heavy barrel onto Daewoo DR200
get the daewoo
which perform better as a manstopper than 62 ss109 current issue.
you all also worrying too much about the gas opertaion of the AR.
1-12 is designed for 55gr bullets
which perform better as a manstopper than 62 ss109 current issue.
you all also worrying too much about the gas opertaion of the AR.
Well, I have talked to a bunch of people, and all of them say that AR15 system is definitely more sensitive to dirt and gets fouled up much quicker then AK, HK and FN/FAL style rifles. Do not get me wrong, I would love to have a DPMS Panther with a 20" heavy barrel as my SHTF weapon. However, I must be absolutely SURE that this weapon won't let me down. I am CONFIDENT in my Norinco Hunter.
I am CONFIDENT in my CZs, my Glock and my TT.
I won't be able to be confident about AR until I see by myself that after 500 rounds of Wolf straight it won't jam or start having FTF and FTE. My NORINCO did it. I heard plenty of good reports about FAL and HK systems doing the same things.
I, however am not sure that DPMS panther will be able to handle that.
Here is another thing. In SHTF, a weapon must be able to digest ANY ammo: Steel cased, Brass cased, anything. I KNOW that my Norinco Hunter can do so. I know that HK rifles eat anything and so does FAL.
I do now how touchy AR rifles are. Some of them won't even work with steel cased, polimer coated ammo.
In all honesty, I LIKE AR180B. Good price, 19 inch barrel. I shot it, loved ergonomics and balance. What bothers me is the fact that the barrel is NOT heavy target type, it also bothers me that when I called Armalite they OPENLY said that they have a problem with the place on the lower receiver where the retainer pin goes in fails sometimes. That "up to now, we were willing to replace the rifle, however, I do not know if this will continue." While I ADMIRE such honesty, I do not want to risk. 2 years from now the part fails, and I am left with a club, and a not very effective one.
I genuinly like V-93. However, the cost of the rifle and magazines is pretty much prohibitive, though I LOVE 5 years unlimited warranty.
I will be looking for a miller receiver Norinco 223 rifle, however, I would also like to have something more... Precision oriented and with heavy barrel.
Every gun is SHTF gun. Even my SVT-40 and SMLE. In fact, I am sure that SMLE will continue to work when every semi auto rifle will fall apart:-)
I wonder, is there a modification that I can do on the AR to turn it into a gas piston rifle? Like something that I saw on one of the sites, where it is pretty much a piston with the cup that fits over a gas tube that comes from AR-15 barrel. Nice rifle. Liked it. Expensive though.
Joe, USN (USMC Grunt Corpsman, Vietnam)
keep in mind it is fashionable for gun-shop commandos to rag on the m-16 type. most of the rifle you listed are completly inferior. su-16, mini,most aks etc.
you will be well served by by buying a standard arm that has had the bugs worked out , and practicing and taking classes. cheap aks jam also, or others have magazines that are either 10x more expensive, or jam
get some trigger time on as many as you can find, and you will find it eaiser
daewoo or ar is your best bet. save some more $ if you have to