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Browning shotguns

MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
edited May 2007 in Ask the Experts
I am considering buying a Citori made in Japan for regular shooting and not for collectible purposes. What is your opinion of the Citori made in Japan as opposed to an older Superposed or A5's made in Belgium?

Do the collectors generally tend to snub the models made in Japan as opposed to those made in Belgium? Would it be better to buy a Browning made in Japan for regular shooting as opposed to one made in the 50's or 60's in Belgium that may increase in value?

My dilemma is if I buy a "collectible", and shoot it on a regular basis, am I destroying the value? So, is it better to buy a Japan made one to regularly shoot and then look for a older colectible for the safe? What are your thoughts here?

It seems to me collectibles should remain in their present state and not be fired, and shooters just be shot on a regular basis. Am I off base here?

Comments

  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Auction # 198960733


    Were the actually shipped with yellow paint on them?
  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i have several questions about a few browning shotguns starting with

    1. What is a unfired bps 12 gauge worth? it has the high gloss stocks, blued receiver, vent rib barrel, box included, engraving on receiver, and it has some birds and an anniversary for a hunting group(1994) engraved in the stock on one side. not perfect condition but a very nice gun

    2. Any input about the A5 front safeties? does it make a gun worth anymore than a regular crossbolt safety? they were asking 300 bucks for the gun, a belgium standard weight i believe.

    3. also, i recently picked up a benelli M1 super 90 12 gauge shotgun. wood stocks(field model i believe?) just the gun with a 28in vent rib barrel in very good shape. the only thing i can notice is that the forestock is loose when the barrel nut is tight. i took the forestock off and saw some spacer like things and ordered another one from brownells so hopefully that problem is fixed. any ballpark value of this gun?

    4. Does the value of a A5 buck special barrel differ much if it is made in belgium or japan? ballpark value?
    thanks much!
  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have 2 old browning belgium made shotguns I am considering selling. The first is a 1929 12 ga. that was my dads. It is in really good condition. Not perfect but really nice.

    The second is a sweet 16 belgium made, 1966, rib vent barrel, gold trigger, square knob. It has a little rust on it here or there. It was used when my dad bought it and gave it to me, some 30 years ago. I have used it 2 or 3 times, years ago, but I don't hunt anything with a shotgun anymore so I thought i would sell it too.

    My question is, should I have it broken down and the gun cleaned up and reblued before I sell it? Would that help or hurt the value. Like I said, the rust is not bad, only light, and only in a couple of places, but I just have no real idea if it is something I should take care of or not. If someone would want it all original and do it themselves if they wanted it done.

    Thanks for your help.

    God bless,

    Michael
  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have 2 browning shotguns I am trying to find info. on.

    One is a Browning Sweet Sixteen A5, Belgium made, Rib vent barrel , gold trigger 2 3/4" ... SN# on the bottom of the gun, in front of the trigger guard looks like 6S above then 60853 below it. I cannot place the serial # from browning's web site.

    The other is a Browning Full 12 A5, Belgium Made , says something like Browning Arms Company, Ogden , Utah ,.... down the barrell. SN # on the bottom of the gun in front of the trigger guard is 136262. The Browning site says it was made between 1903 and 1939, if I have dated it correctly.

    I am trying to find out any info I can to get a good idea of their age and value for possible sale.

    Is there anything else I need to look at, or for, to determine age and value?

    Thanks,

    Michael
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what choke is the 16ga?
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Michael,

    The "6S" tells us that it is a Sweet Sixteen made in 1966 (late in the year).

    Your 12 gauge gun should have the old style safety located on the front of the trigger guard, and based on the serial number 136262, it was manufactured near the end of 1932.

    As for the value, that is purely a function of the graded condition, factory originality, and configuration (plain gun, or special order). Posting pictures of each gun will help us to help you.

    WACA Historian & Life Member

  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, I'll try to post as much as possible. On the 16 ga. first, then the 12.

    There are no cracks inthe wood stock or forearm , that I can find. They are all original. The reciever has Browning written in the middle of the scroll work with a circle and a mans head etched in it. Higher up on the reciever it says Sweet Sixteen. The left side of the barrel says Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo. & Montreal PQ. It has made in belgium under that. The right side of the barrel says special steel 16 gauge shells 2 3/4"
    The barrel has the ribbed vent, and the safety is at the back of the trigger guard behind the gold trigger. The buttplate is plastic or bone or something. It's hard, not soft, and says Browning Automatic on it.


    The 12 has on the left side of the reciver , up high, FAbrique Nationale D'Armes DE Guerre Herstal BelGique with Brownings Patent DEPCSE under it. The left side of the barrel has Full 12 Special Steel with OKG971 and other proof marks back towards the receiver. Top of the Barrel in front of the receiver is Browning Arms Company Ogden Utah. The right side of the barrel says made in Belgium and the ight side of the receiver is blank except for a few proof marks. The gun is all original and there are no cracks in the forearm or stock that I can find. The butt plate says browning automatic. It is either a plastic or bone or something like that. The safety is through the front of the trigger guard. Above the serial# it has a circle with what looks like FN in it and under the serial # it looks like a small square with a D in it.

    And the reason I believe it to be that old is this from the browning web site.

    " 1903-1939
    First 10,000 shipped to U.S. Marked with "BROWNING AUTOMATIC ARMS CO. OGDEN UTAH-U.S.A." Very few serial number records remain.
    Beginning with Serial Number 1 to approximately 228,000. Exact production figures are not available. Year of manufacture on Pre-World War II production is strictly a guess. "

    But I do not know that to be a fact, I am just guessing at the age by what I have found.

    Sixteen ga.
    browningguns002.jpg

    browningguns005.jpg

    browningguns006.jpg

    browningguns004.jpg

    browningguns007.jpg


    12 ga.

    browningguns013.jpg

    browningguns010.jpg

    browningguns008.jpg

    browningguns011.jpg

    browningguns012.jpg
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Michael,

    Your pictures are not working. Try posting just the web link to where you have them hosted.

    As I mentioned in my last post, your 12 guage A5 was manufactured circa 1932 (which fits right in with what you found stating that it was made between 1903 - 1939).

    The choke marking on your Sweet Sixteen will be on the left side of the barrel near the frame, and it will appear as follows;

    * is Full Choke (F)
    *- is Improved Modified (IM)
    ** is Modified (M)
    **- is Improved Cylinder (IC)
    **$ is Skeet (SK)
    *** is Cylinder bore (CYL)

    WACA Historian & Life Member

  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 12 ga seems to have been reblued. Is that correct??
  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, I don't understand.... I can see the pics, and so did duckhunter.

    http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/MET627/


    It looks to be a single star might be a double... there is something there, if I am looking at the correct place.

    It was right before it said special steel 16 gauge 2 3/4".

    And no, duckhunter, as far as I know it has never been reblued. It was my dad's for as long as I can remember, and I have had it since he died 14 years ago.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, I can see th pictures now... must be something to do with my work computer versus the home PC.

    I am a bit confused by the buttstock on your Sweet Sixteen... based on the 1966 DOM, it should be a round knob pistol grip just like the 12 gauge. Intead, it has the square knob that Browning switched to in 1967. The only explanation, is that it is a "transitional" gun, and that it was manufactured in very late 1966. The overall condition is best described as 80%, and it is worth approximately $1000 - $1100.

    The 12 guage does indeed appear to have been refinished (a long time ago), and as such, it is a $300 gun.

    WACA Historian & Life Member

  • MichaelT.MichaelT. Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you sir.... The 12 might have been before I was old enough to know, but as I said, and you reiterated, it would have been a long time ago ( 1960's or before ). But I have to ask, how would one know if it had? What are you looking for to let you know that. I hate to sound ignorant, but I know nothing about shotguns. I love my rifles, and handguns, but I have hunted with a shotgun 2 times in my 43 years, and although I enjoyed it, I have just never really taken to it, or given the shotguns a valued place in my heart. The value they have to me is in being handed down from my dad to me when he died. I do appreciate all your assistance with these two shotguns, none-the-less.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Michael,

    On the 12 gauge, it appears that the area around each of the screws is slightly dished, and that only happens when somebody gets to aggressive with a polishing wheel when removing the original finish prior to rebluing. Another clue is the rounded corners and edges on the receiver that still have a deep blue on them. Again, the 'smith who cleaned it up (polished it) prior to rebluing, got a bit too aggressive with the buffing wheel. If you put both guns side-by-side and look closely at all of the corners and edges, you will see that the 16 ga. has more pronounced (sharper) edges, and that there is slight bluing loss on those edges... the 12 ga. has less pronounced (softer) edges, and they are deeply blued. Another item to look at is all of the lettering and numbers stamped into the steel. On the 16 ga. everything is still sharp, and deeply stamped. On the 12 ga., you will see some fading around all of those stamps.

    WACA Historian & Life Member

  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    single star makes it a full choke gun. bets are the gun was used for pheasant or ducks.
    good ole work horse guns. prices are kinda ridiculous for a5's these days. if someone wants it bad enough, i guess theyed pay for it. personally, id never own one, but many are buying them up only because they stopped making them. THAT is what sent the prices sky high. otherwise, they use to be a dime a dozen in gun shops, and , most were all cracked and beat up from heavy use. seems they had a following in cold weather areas where gas autos often failed.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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