HK91 clone question.

Dangerous T

I am watching the FA91 rifle on this site. Planning to buy it. I do, however, have two questions for you, folks. In the past, you have been given very kind and very informative in your answers, and before anything, I wish to thank you all for helping and teaching me.
Here is the question. The rifle is FA91, the bidding starts at $450.
Is it a good price for a rifle that had "no more then 100 rounds through it"? I talked to people who have FA91, and they are happy with it. "Ugly but reliable and as accurate as HK91" is the quote I heard many times. What is your opinion on those rifles?
The other question is very important, as it will affect my decision.
I asked the seller if the rifle has "ground bolt". His reply was: "bolt has one of 2 grooves machined through". What does it mean? Why would a groove be machined through? Should I stay away from this rifle?

I thank you very much for all your advice and help.

artvls

Do not buy HK's with aluminum receiver's.

Dangerous T

How come? I know people who have FA91 and are quite happy with it.
I can NOT afford paying 900 bucks for a PTR91. For me, it is either CETME or FA91. I am not rich enough to buy a 900 bucks gun.
Does FA91 has any problems besides being ugly? What did that "grove that is machined throug" means?

mcaso

Does anyone know the answers to Dangerous's two questions?

mutter

The FA91 in the ad is nothing more then a CETME clone. The hk91 is also a CETME clone produced by the germans after the rights were sold to them by spain. The groove that is machined through is the bolt trip lever groove. As the bolt goes forward it strips a round into the chamber and then the groove disengages the trip lever so it will fire in full auto as the round is in battery.

The firearm he is talking about does not even have the trip lever and in fact has a semi auto only trigger group.

The groove was required to be machined all the way through by the BATFE in order to keep the gun legal. There is nothing wrong with these guns and there general advantage over an original cetme is they weren't built by century! I have a century and it is great now that I've worked it.

I don't see why people stated that they are ugly or as accurate as an HK91. They are the same gun with minor fittings to meet federal legal requirements. That is a good price if you get it for that but I'd be more leary of why the guy is selling it this cheap. It may be relatively unfired and in fantastic condition. I'd buy it but your question should be can you afford ammo now that milsurp has dried up. Be prepared to pay 40 cents a round +.

Good luck.

Dangerous T

Thank you for your reply, Mutter
Here is the gun that I am talking about
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=72633986
It has some obvious scratches, but the seller claims that it is in fine working order and has less then 100 rounds through it, the seller has no negative feedbacks. It is being listed for the third time.
What do you think? How come nobody is bidding on it.

Now, there is another FA91 out there.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=72389410
And there are three bids for it. What is the difference between these two guns?

Any advice you can give me on this one? Yes, I know that PTR 91 is the best. I have no $1000 to spend on a PTR.

Yes, I know that 308 ammo is not cheap. I am planning to use Silver Bear, Wolf and Barnaul ammo.

D

Blckhrn

The ammo you plan on using is steel cased. The fluted chamber of this genre of rifle needs brass. I'm sure that someone here will be able to explain this better than I but there are grooves broached into the chamber that act to delay the blowback action of this design under chamber pressures. Steel cased ammo will not reliably engage the flutes, as I understand it.

artvls

Well, I don't have any experience with the aluminum receiver type HK's I just see a lot of postings about the trunion coming loose from the receiver.

Wehrmacht_45

The flutes are there in the chamber to aid in the extraction process. Actions of this type used to use lubricated or waxed cartridges, which makes them unsuitable for military service in certain climates. Otherwise the violent action can rip the base off of a spent cartridge when it expands. This is what ultimately doomed John Pederson's 270 caliber rifle that the British tested. The main issue I think one would run into using the laquered steel cases is that the lacquer might cause a sticky chamber situation and the assitance of the gas will not be enough to aid extraction. He might be ok with Silver Bear ammo since its plated instead, but I would call someome at JLD enterprises to see what they have to say about it.

mutter

1st, your choice of ammo is fine. Steel case or brass case does not matter and the laquer is not even an issue. The grooves in the chamber are there to aid in extraction, especially during full auto firing. They do not damage the case as far as reloading but this rifle has a tradition of denting the hell out of the case mouth.

Your ammo choice is fine, mine eats any and everything I put in it. I don't know where waxed or lubricated comment comes into play on 308 as I don't believe it has ever existed or at least not in the last 60 years. If you buy it and need some brass cased stuff I'll list an auction for some SA 308 at a reasonable price to get you going. I personally don't see a difference.

Also, I really like the steel cased stuff because I have a roll around magnet to pick them up and that makes cleanup a breeze.

2nd, The first auction that has ended is the better deal and from the pictures a better condition firearm. If I were you and I wanted this type of gun, I would email the seller from the first auction(it ended) and see if he will relist at the last price and then jump on it.

3rd I HAVE NEVER OWNED A FA brand firearm. BUT, it and especially these 2 are clone kit guns assembled on the "FA" receiver. The 2nd one's description is ludicrious to say the least and is not 922r compliant. I hope it is a preban (NOT).

Also, the PTR91 is NOT the best. An original CETME or HK91 is the best but even my Century clone functions as well and was only $450 out the door at the local gun store. The PTR91 is nothing more then a clone. Yes it is made in America versus a kit gun put on an American receiver, but it is still a clone. I have also run into issues with the PTR91 that I bought for my dad. Good gun and well worth it because my dad asked me for it, but I would personally rather have my FAL or even pay a lot less and shoot my century.

Good Luck

Mutter

Wehrmacht_45

I was merely saying that before chamber fluting the common solution to aid extraction in some firearms was waxing or lubricating the cartridge. The T65/7.62x51/308 never had this done as it was invented after fluting was implimented. But this was one on earlier cartridges in such guns as the Pederson rifle in 270 and the Austrian Schwarzlose machinegun in WW1 and WW2.