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HK416, AR15/M16 Fix or No?

.308.308 Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
edited May 2007 in Ask the Experts
http://www.hk-usa.com/le_hk416_general.html

Okay experts. View the above site then answer my question.

Does this HK416 conversion give the AR15/M16 the same basic action as the M1 Garand/M14/Mini14? Or better?

Either way, FINALLY there is a fix for the AR15/M16!
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Comments

  • Wehrmacht_45Wehrmacht_45 Member Posts: 3,377
    edited November -1
    Probaably more like the gas system of an FAL. The other rifles you listed has an the operating rod attached to the bolt more directly and are under barrel systems. Almost all the piston driven AR mods use an FAL/K43/Tokarev/SKS/FN49 type of gas system.

    As for a fix..yes and no. The rifle still has tight tolerances which make it more apt to have issues with sand, dust, and dirt. Less will get in the action because of the piston system, but the rifle still needs more carefull and regular cleaning than a Kalashnikov.

    And....the rifle still have a relatvely weak extractor, which is helped by the addition of the D ring, although I dont think the military issues those. It is an adequate rifle for military service, but I think the M14 and M1 garand definately were more durable guns. But you cant get anything for free, and by getting the lightweight, low recoil, and accuracy of the black rifle you sacrificed the strength of forged steel, the power of a larger cartridge, and the looser toleracnes that help with reliabilty in severe conditions.
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  • Old FoolOld Fool Member Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With all due respect to Wermacht, that is a bunch of old wives tales. The M-16/M-4 has been the battle rifle for the US Military for 40 years. It is an extremely dependable rifle, far more so than any AK ever built. The round is devastating on living targets, and does far more damage than the 7.62 rounds.

    The M-16 family is the preeminent battle rifle in the world, and for good reasons.

    Good luck
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    +1 for that old fool
    Our Delta, Seal and the other Special forces use the M16.
    They are as reliable as an anvil.

    CP
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  • Wehrmacht_45Wehrmacht_45 Member Posts: 3,377
    edited November -1
    My Colt AR is a POS.....400 rounds and it starts malfunctioning( I know how to clean and oil it, and I even use an HK mag). My friends Oly Arms is even worse, and my cousins DPMS is only slightly better than mine. I wouldnt trust it for any battle. I only use mine to kill furry little prarie dogs. My FAL on the other hand has been 10X more reliable and my Mak 90 even more.

    Old Wives tales? My research into things tells me different. If they could actually duplicate the ARPA wounds of 1961 without having a 1 in 16 twist I would conceed the lethality issue, but if you study the West German 7.62 NATO you will find it to be devastating. 40 years doesnt tell me much there. We used alot of designs for many years taht were behind in the times. The reason we did not replace it is the fact that we did not want to spend the money to do so in peacetime or we were in the middle of a conflict and to switch would have been a logistical nightmare. We also took about 30 years to finally send the 1911 packing. I know several people in the Army and reserves who hated their M16 and M4. I conceeded that it was an acceptable service rifle, I just think it does not live up to its ancestors. I mean an M1 Garand work in a muddy cold foxhole for a week in the Ardennes or Korea and work wonderfully. The M16 however was an utter disaster from 1966-1968 and then was made acceptable, much like the British SA80 after HK got through fixing them up. One thing I find is that guns are much like cars....some like Ford and some Chevy and to each group the other is an utter POS. I dont like the AR.....some love it. Thats fine.
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  • .308.308 Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read recently that the Army is considering buying another 150,000 more M4s, and that there is a Senator who wants them to be HK416 equiped. Apparently, a number of Spec Forces guys have spent their own money on the HK416.
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  • PC800PC800 Member Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I found it strange that we use the 5.56 round for trying to kill humans when it is not even legal in many states to use it for trying to kill a small deer. Yes, DoD is looking at buying another 150K M-4 rifles, but they also said that it is "good enough" for "right now" until something totally new comes along. Personally, I do think that our military should be issuing anything that is just "good enough." And yes, Soccom has been buying their own HK416s, as they have their own budgets and can buy what they want. Future weapons did a test of the HK416 and it passed with flying colors, on tests that an M-4 would fail. As in covering it with sand and just shaking it off and then firing, etc.
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  • .308.308 Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Getting hit with any bullet would suck, and I'm no expert on these things. But I recall reading John Plaster's Ultimate Sniper and seeing the photos of 5.56 bullets splintering when striking the ballistic gellatin. If one little bullet could make hamburger out of another man's insides, perhaps that is why the military still uses them.
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  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    Hi, PC800! Givette here. I've seen humans (real people) get hit with 55gr m16 and 7.62 M14/M60. They all drop alike. Can't tell the difference. Rgds, Joe

    EDIT: To cpermd..you are right about the anvil. No visible signs of wear after over 1,000 tosses. Hits way low, though. J.
    [:D][:D]
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  • PC800PC800 Member Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by givette
    Hi, PC800! Givette here. I've seen humans (real people) get hit with 55gr m16 and 7.62 M14/M60. They all drop alike. Can't tell the difference. Rgds, Joe




    Maybe, but I still find it interesting that the 5.56 is not even legal for deer hunting in many states due to it's small size and low power, but it is used as a battle caliber. And I have heard about enough failures of it in the desert that I would not use it voluntarily. I will stick with the 7.62x39 or larger rounds.
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  • CobrayKidCobrayKid Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They should bring the M1 Carbine back....
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  • .308.308 Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nay, on the carbine. Years ago, I wanted to buy one, simply because I'm a war buff and I like the feel of it in my hands. But my Dad, Master Sargent, US Army, said he didn't like them because the bullet was too light. I researched it, found a study done during the Korean War. The big shots had gone to the front line after a battle and found all of that unit's carbines lying in the snow in front of their foxholes. When questioned why, the soldiers said uniformly, "If we can't kill them with these things, then they can't kill us with them either."

    I've seen what the .30-06 can do to flesh, and why not keep that! My opinion only.
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