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Bad Factory Ammo?

gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
edited November 2007 in Ask the Experts
Shooting new Winchester 44 mags in my Vaquero and whammo!!!!!!!!

After 14 shots the 15TH gave wallop of a recoil. The case had to be forceably extracted. The case was bulged and split. No apparent damgae to the cylinder but Ruger is inspecting to be on safe side.

Winchester says they are not responsible for their products used in an uncontrolled environment and their ammo does not misfire.

Any recourse or just screwed?

Comments

  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "or just screwed?"... YOU SAID IT
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Winchester says they are not responsible for their products used in an uncontrolled environment and their ammo does not misfire.

    Whoever said that is lying or misinformed. I had to take an entire order of Winchester shotgun shells out of service, when several examples failed on the range. All rounds fired, but some were very weak, not having enough power to knock over a steel plate at 10 yards. A few were so weak that the pellets fell to the ground before they got to the target.

    The shells were Winchester's first attempt at making a "low-recoil" load, and they did admit that a lot of PDs had complaints about them. They ended up sending us a few cases of shells to make it up.

    We got a defective Remington .40 S&W round, with no flash hole in thhe primer pocket. Fortunately, the round was fired on the range and not at a bad guy. The primer was forced out of the pocket and tied the gun up, but good. We had to insert a cleaning rod down the barrel and hit it with a mallet to get the action open.

    Remington sent us some ammo and caps as an an apology.
  • abcguns2abcguns2 Member Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What ??? O.K. , I worked for 'winchester' back in the early '80's (as a gunnery tech a.k.a. Gunsmith) , and Yes they are liable for 'bad ammo' , thats one of the reasons the small 'remanufacturers of ammo' (commerical reloaders?) have such issues and the liability insurance is out the roof ... But , with No Damage done , or Injury ?
    then its a lost cause to try and do AnyThing about it !!!! I would recontact winchester as well as other needed parties and at least Not just blow this off , you will not receive any thing in return but at least you know that the persons needed have been properly notified !
    Good Luck !!!
    d.a.stearns
    Gunsmith
    Niota , Tn
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What ??? O.K. , I worked for 'winchester' back in the early '80's (as a gunnery tech a.k.a. Gunsmith) , and Yes they are liable for 'bad ammo' , thats one of the reasons the small 'remanufacturers quote:of ammo' (commerical reloaders?) have such issues and the liability insurance is out the roof ... But , with No Damage done , or Injury ?
    then its a lost cause to try and do AnyThing about it !!!! I would recontact winchester as well as other needed parties and at least Not just blow this off , you will not receive any thing in return but at least you know that the persons needed have been properly notified !
    Good Luck !!!
    d.a.stearns
    Gunsmith
    Niota , Tn


    Winchester just blew me off as though I was trying to get something over on them. No one was injured and there was no visual damage to my firearm and I simply wanted to report the incident for safety sake as now a once loyal customer. I was quite taken back as they did not inquire about specifics, lot numbers, etc., nor did they take the information when I offered it. I would think they would be proactive at least and want tocheck their quality control or to see if there had been any other incidents like this to prevent any loss in the future. maybe they will pay attention when their new factory ammunition injurs or kills someone when it blows up in their face.
  • Wehrmacht_45Wehrmacht_45 Member Posts: 3,377
    edited November -1
    I had three 9mm rounds of white box that were bent or misfired out of a 100 round bulk pack.

    I had Super X 12 gauge ammo hang fire


    They are so full of poop. This is why I try not to use Winchester products. I went to Estate and Kent for my 12GA, and Seller and Belloit or Fiochhi for my handguns and rifles.
  • Fairlane66Fairlane66 Member Posts: 338 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I purchased a case of Winchester's 12 Ga range ammo from Walmart about three years ago ($29.80/case back then) and when I opened the box, shot ran all over the place. Three 25-round boxes out of 10 had several rounds that were improperly crimped and the cases split, allowing the shot charge to leak out. I contacted Winchester and they were polite but cautious. They sent me a mailing label and asked me to send the faulty rounds, the lot numbers, and UPC code back to them. I figured I'd receive at least a thank-you back from customer service, but never heard another word. Not sure if that's standard procedure or not, but I was a little put off.

    I'm generally a big fan of Winchester ammo and the episode in question didn't change my overall opinion. However, I'd bet a paycheck the customer service rep's caution was due to legal issues and, if a company smells law suit, they'll communicate as little as possible. I suppose even sending a "we're sorry" note or a "thank you" card might admit liability. Dang the folks who sue at the drop of a hat; dang the lawyers always looking to override common sense and go for the dudes with deep pockets. We all lose in the end.
  • Wolf.Wolf. Member Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I'd bet a paycheck the customer service rep's caution was due to legal issues and, if a company smells law suit, they'll communicate as little as possible. I suppose even sending a "we're sorry" note or a "thank you" card might admit liability. Dang the folks who sue at the drop of a hat; dang the lawyers always looking to override common sense and go for the dudes with deep pockets. Well, my take on this type of behavior is that if I wasn't going to be an @$$hole and sue beforehand, I would sure consider it after that rude, disrespectful and frosty behavior.

    I don't actively go looking for handouts, however a fairly good-sized or larger, well-known organization, in my opinion, is duty-bound to issue a personal communication and not some form-letter crap, the sole intent being to deny liability! They should also at least include some little inexpensive advertising thingie as a thank-you. Especially so when someone has obviously expended some considerable effort to bring a quality or safety concern regarding one of their products it to their attention.

    Today, companies/corporations don't give a rat's * about developing customer good will. Their whole thing is to develop good relations and large sales contracts with their large distributers and government entities and put as much distance between themselves and their end-users/consumers as possible. Their "Customer Service" or "Customer Relations" departments are nothing more than first-responder damage control operations.

    The way GUNPAQ was treated by Winchester is the way McDonald's treated that lady a number of years ago who burned herself on their super-heated, 180 degree F coffee. That behavior is precisely the real reason she pursued litigation against them.
  • tocamohatocamoha Member Posts: 271 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A few years back I bought a case of PMC.22 Mag.The rim failed on one and blew the plastic magazine out of my Rem.597.PMC paid to have the gun repaired by Remington plus shipping.They asked me to send them the rest of the ammo and what I could use instead. They sent me several boxes of 30.06.More than the cost of the .22 Mag ammo.
  • reindeerreindeer Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winchester is of course responsible for the product that they put into the stream of commerce if it is used in the manner in which same is intended. Your damage depends upon the extent of injury. Thusfar you have identified injury to the extent of the cost of the bad round and perhaps an unwillingness to utilize the rest of the box of ammo. Send Winny a letter with a photo of the shell and the box with lot info displayed. I am sure they are interested. If they are not then shame on them. I experienced a "who cares about you" attitude from Beretta several years ago when a part on my 390 broke. I tell everybody about it and will never buy another Beretta product. If they don't need me enough to stand behind their product, I don't need them. reindeer
  • WWllVetWWllVet Member Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A few years back, I had some .38-40 rounds that split cases when fired. I contacted Winchester and they said to send them the split cases and any remaining round in the origional box for evaluation. about two weeks later I received two boxes of new ammo and a letter explaining that some of the brass used was from a bad lot, along with an appology and a thank you.

    For GOD and COUNTRY

    Vet
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