Encore hand gun scopes

SCOUT5

Question at the end.

I recently purchased, as some already know, a Thompson Encore handgun 15" barrel .270 win caliber. It came with a Thompson 2.5x7x28 scope already mounted. I purchased it hoping to increase my hunting range on deer and to try something different. I can use this caliber here in Indiana in a handgun but not a rifle. I have no previous experience with handgun scopes. At the reange, after tightening all screws and zeroing it I shot a 1 1/8" 3 shot group at 100 yards using Remington 130 express core-lokt ammunition. So I am satisfied with both the firearm and my ability to use it. I shot a nice buck with it Saturday morning, the ammo done it's job.

Here is my problem and my question. The scope does not transmit enough light to shoot at first or last light. I am losing 30-45 minutes of shooting time on each end of the day when compared to the 3x9x40 scope on my shotgun. This time is important for success in my area, especially in the evening. Is there a handgun scope that will extend my time? I'm thinking this is the trade off for the range advantage but am hoping I am wrong. I also am having trouble using the scope above 4x and that is what I used at the range for my 100 yard shots. I would like more magnification as my goal is 300 yards of effective range with this firearm. All experienced suggestions welcome.

Thanks..........Scout

HandgunHTR52

Scout, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortuantely, with pistol scopes, you just don't get the light transmission that you do with rifle scopes. Mostly this has to do with how far your eye is away from the scope. You have to look through a lot of "dark" to see the "light" through the scope. I am sure someone will chime in with the scientific explaination, as I do not know it well enough to put it here. To get something that will work during those low-light times, you would have to go to a red-dot or holographic type, and limit yourself to close range, thus defeating the purpose that you want it for.
Now, as far as using it above 4X, what seems to be the problem? Is it that you lose the sight picture above that magnification? If that is the case, you have to move the scope closer to your eye the higher the magnification goes. So, even if you were to go up in magnification (such as the Burris 3X-12X), to get a good sight picture at 12X you have to move the scope into about 11-14 inches from the eye (in my experience).
Also, 7X should be plenty of magnification to let you accruately shoot to about 300 yards if you do your part and have a rock-steady rest. You don't need to be able to count every hair on the deer's chest, just be able to zero the crosshairs on it. I have shot a deer at 235 yards with my scope set on 4X before.

bull300wsm

Scout...I have a NCstar 4x32 on my 30-30 contender handgun that seems to be holding up well. It has a lit duplex for early morning late evening hunts. I used mine to take a cow elk this year before the sun came up. It is a cheaper scope money wise but seems to be holding up.....Bull

SahaganBeta

Generally speaking, the light through-put of an optical system is primarily a function of the area of the objective lense (or mirror).
Secondary functions include number of optical surfaces in a system, anti-reflective coatings or not, and so forth.

And if I can remember my pies and radii properly, we'll look at just one example. Take a scope with a 4 inch diameter lense. Use the famous old formula, pi times the radius (2 inches for a 4 inch lense) of the lense, squared (4), and you'd end up with somewhere around 12.5 square inches of surface on that 4 inch lense.

Double that diameter to 8 inches though, and you get lots more than you might think. For pi times the radius (4 inches) squared (16) would give you around 50 square inches of light gathering surface area. You doubled the diameter, but got nearly four times the light gathering area.

That's why larger binoculars allow you to 'see' much more detail in the dark. Point a pair of 50 or 60mm binos at the dark woods over there, and you'll see them brighten up considerably, enabling you to see much more.

Run the formula with your 28mm scope, versus one with 40mm, and you'll see you will up the light through-put to such a degree that it just might solve your problem. Want to get it really bright? Go to 50mm.

It's been a long time since I've done the math on these things, but it sounds right to me. Of course, being a humble man, I am not afraid to be corrected by those who know better.

Sahagan

gskyhawk

you might try using a Bushnell Holosight , this is a reddot with out the tube! no tube to look thru no problems seeing in low light

here is a link to one on the auction side just so you can see what they are

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85603391

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85446320

two different brands but they both work the same way , i have several Bushnells and they work very well

SCOUT5

Thank you for the responses. After hunting with the Thompson I am very impressed with the potential but at the same time am aware of the draw backs. I have considred a red-dot or holosight for my 454 Ruger but would like some magnification to unlock the potential range of the .270. I guess I am going to look for a better handgun scope and have it set up for next season. In the mean time I'll finish this season with what I have. As stated I have no previuos experience with hand gun scopes. I do know I want bolder cross hairs, and a larger objective for more light transmission. I think 4x is plenty but am not opposed to more magnification if I can get it, and use it. I know there are handgun scopes that go up to 12x, has anyone actually used them and what do you think of them?

Thanks.........Scout

gskyhawk

take a look at this site

www.bearbasin.com

lots of different scope there

mrbruce

I just came in from my tree stand with my .284 XP-100 and it has a 3X12 Burris setting on it with 4 Burris Signature rings holding it on tight...
That scope is the most awesome pistol scope you'll ever come up with, and it will certainly allow shooting right up till it's time to quit as far as the NYS DEC laws are concerned.....
If your into varmints for practice with your deer pistol, check out that 3X12 Burris pistol scope out to 300 yards on a fat old groundhog on 12 power..... then in the fall when a fat old buck walks by at 200 yards you can put em in the freezer, no problem.......

SCOUT5

MR Bruce,

Thanks, I am considering the scope you mention and have looked online at them before I wrote on this topic. Like I said I have no experience and no one I know does either. Do you think the 4 rings would be neccessary on my Encore with the .270 barrel? Also should I place a bipod on it and if so what height and what brand is best for deer hunting? I was thinking of one that would let me shoot from a sitting position as well as prone. Or would shooting sticks work better?

Thanks............Scout

dakotashooter2

It came with a Thompson 2.5x7x28 scope already mounted. quote: The "28" (objective lens) is the problem with this scope. It's to small to gather enough light at dusk/dawn at the higher power settings. I won't even look at anything less than a 32 mm in a pistol scope and 40 in a rifle. At low light this scope will probably give you it's best brightness at 4x or less.

dfletcher

quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
MR Bruce,

Thanks, I am considering the scope you mention and have looked online at them before I wrote on this topic. Like I said I have no experience and no one I know does either. Do you think the 4 rings would be neccessary on my Encore with the .270 barrel? Also should I place a bipod on it and if so what height and what brand is best for deer hunting? I was thinking of one that would let me shoot from a sitting position as well as prone. Or would shooting sticks work better?

Thanks............Scout


I have a Burris fixed 10X on a Remington Custom Shop XP 100 in 223. Very nice scope, but a bit sensitive regarding eye placement.

I presume the 3 - 12X is about the same size and that means a pretty long tube so far as handgun scopes are concerned. Note that MR BRUCE uses 4 rings securing his Burris to a 284. Not only do the additional rings help slippage, they support the scope & minimize "tube flex". Tube flex occurs during recoil when the heavier front & rear lens areas of the scope tend to stay put at the start of recoil & want to keep going at the end of the recoil impulse. Think of a barbell with a weights on the end being whipped about & that's what happens to a scope. Four rings placed at intervals near the turet and next to the front & rear bells provide better support than just two rings.

You'll also want to ensure your scope base can accomodate 4 rings. Some, like the Stratton steel model, will not.