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2nd Generation night vision to France?

GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 16,755 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 2010 in Ask the Experts
Is it against Fed law to ship night vision to France? I found a site 3 days ago saying its not, but can't find it again[?],, after I had ywo guys tell me IT IS against the law? any help?,,nambu
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,880 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unless these guys are in the import/export business, I wouldn't take anyone's word that it is legal. Especially since the Dept of State's Munitions Roster changes frequently.

    I would not send anything outside of the US without:
    1) an export permit, or
    2) a letter from the US Dept of State saying I don't need an export permit for a specific item.

    But, that's just me; I hate prison food.

    Neal
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    You can freely import and export telescopic sights suitable for daylight use for hunting and target shooting. any other optical device falls under the US Munitions List and you'll need an export permit from the US State Department to ship overseas. To do this you need to be registered with the BATFE as well as the US Department of State. ATF Form 4587 and a $250 filing fee will get you started. You cannot get the State Department permit prior to being registered with the BATFE...Enjoy.
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    GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 16,755 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Neil and Mark,,,,I will relay message that I will NOT ship, period! Have a ggod day...nambu
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    joelvanderhoekjoelvanderhoek Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Check out www.gunbroker.com/User/ImportExport.aspx - the dealers listed there can export for you - the customer would pay you, you'd ship it to the FFL export dealer who'd take care of it from there.

    Mark Christian said you can ship daylight use scopes - but even those are controlled and require a license for export (from Dept of Commerce BIS rather that Dept of State DDTC). And the ATF Form 4587 mentioned is only for export of NFA firearms.
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Form 4587:
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-4.pdf

    Mark Christian says that 4587 applies to any articles found under Section 38 of The Arms Export Control Act of 1976 and not solely to National Firearms Act weapons and the form is just one step in the process, not an end. The Department of Commerce issues export permits for certain sporting shotguns.


    I always love a guy who joins the site today just to tell me that I am wrong.
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why would you consider shipping such an item to France?
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    joelvanderhoekjoelvanderhoek Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark - I created a person GB account that day, but manage the Import/Export department at the #1 exporter listed by GunBroker. You're right that you need Form 4587 from ATF (the registration to be an importer), which we've done. Sorry, I thought you were referring to ATF Form 9 "Application to Permanently Export a Firearm".

    Regarding Dept of Commerce jurisdiction over sporing (daylight) scopes, this page (http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm) walks a person through this determination. It's a bit complex, but at the end of the day, unfortunately, all of my contact with BIS and research tells me that not only shotguns, but also sporting scopes, are regulated for export by BIS/DoC. If you have information to the contrary, I'd be very interested.

    Regards.
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    joelvanderhoekjoelvanderhoek Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...and apparently now I cannot spell correctly. Sorry for the multiple errors in the post above.

    Regards,

    Joel VanderHoek
    www.davessports.com/export
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    The thread was stated five weeks ago and nambu already said that he was not going to ship. To what end are we are still dragging this one out?
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Locked at the request of mm8nambu.
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