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Some clarification wanted re: M1, M1A
jsergovic
Member Posts: 5,526
It has been suggested to me that I should buy a rifle (I'm a hand-gunner). The M1A was put forth.
I had planned to start with a Savage 11G, iron sites, .243.
(The model number just changed from 111G when Accu-Trigger came out)
So I punch M1A into google, and am overwhelmed by 51,400 hits. (0.22 seconds; moving slow tonight).
First off, the Springfield M1. It appears semi-automatic, but the gunshop guys told me I want to start with a bolt-action gun.
Is the gas operated rotating bolt as good/better than a manually-operated bolt?
THUMBHOLE STOCK - I read about them, see pictures, but there is not really a hole in the stock always, is there? Does this phrase include a stock cut in a manner to allow placement on the hand in a certain position?
If I get a manually-operated bolt-action rifle, doesn't that leave me room for one of the "prohibited" add-ons (under CA law, semi-auto + one of many add-ons makes it an assault weapon)
Thanks from a rifle newbie.
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!
I had planned to start with a Savage 11G, iron sites, .243.
(The model number just changed from 111G when Accu-Trigger came out)
So I punch M1A into google, and am overwhelmed by 51,400 hits. (0.22 seconds; moving slow tonight).
First off, the Springfield M1. It appears semi-automatic, but the gunshop guys told me I want to start with a bolt-action gun.
Is the gas operated rotating bolt as good/better than a manually-operated bolt?
THUMBHOLE STOCK - I read about them, see pictures, but there is not really a hole in the stock always, is there? Does this phrase include a stock cut in a manner to allow placement on the hand in a certain position?
If I get a manually-operated bolt-action rifle, doesn't that leave me room for one of the "prohibited" add-ons (under CA law, semi-auto + one of many add-ons makes it an assault weapon)
Thanks from a rifle newbie.
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!
Comments
I suggest that you start by joining the National Rifle Association, & read every issue of the American Rifleman magazine that can be included with your membership. You might also want to subscribe to a commercial magazine, such as Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times. In addition to finding what kinds of rifles are currently being offered, you will also figure out what your needs are.
To answer your question directly, the US M1 Rifle is a clip-fed semi-automatic rifle firing .30-06 that was used by the US military in WWII & Korea; they can be bought from the govt directly at www.odcmp.org. The commercial manufacturer, Springfield, Inc, sells expensive reproductions that are lower in quality.
The US M14 Rifle was used by the US military in the early part of the Viet Nam War, & fires .308 Win from a detachable box magazine. Since this rifle was designed for full automatic fire, only M14-clones designed for semi-automatic fire can be sold today; Springfield, Inc has copyrighted the name "M1A" for their M14-clone, & it is a good rifle. I suggest that you browse Springfield, Inc's website.
Although at one time semi-auto rifles were not as accurate as bolt actions, todays technology has enabled the production of semi-auto rifles that are as accurate as most bolt actions.
Thumbhole stocks usually DO have a hole in the stock; their design was developed for precision target shooting, & permits a "pistol grip" hold that is more comfortable. These stocks were used on a number of imported military style rifles to convince the govt that they were intended for "sporting" purposes.
California's so-called assault weapon laws don't apply to bolt action rifles. However, there is rarely a sound reason for altering ANY gun to assault weapon configuration.
Neal
Its the loaded "California" (Muzzle brake instead of flash hider) M1A.
Heres a link:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/*-rifles-loaded.shtml
MA9226
You can't go wrong.
It is an 11-pound, gas operated main battle rifle used with distinction since prior to VN, and still used today in action overseas, firing the 7.62Nato(308) at around 2800fps. There were a few hundred made to be select-fire, at which point the military discovered that it was uncontrollable, and discontinued tinkering with the idea.
There's a world of difference between the M1 and M1a; one fires a 30-06(M1), and the other fires .308. The M1Garand is indeed available thru the ODCMP for about $500, Danish models are a little more, and there are variants which go for much more; the M1a is currently manufactured (to mil-spec, btw) by Springfield Armory in several configurations ie, National Match, Super Match, etc., and can be had in .243 as well.
The rotating bolt design is used on the M1 Carbine, M1 Rifle, and the M1a; it is a bear to disassemble/reassemble without the proper tool/fixture.
Not too sure about the semi vs. bolt action laws in Kali; but if you want a good bolt action rifle that will last much longer than the Savage you're contemplating, try the Ruger model 77MKII or for a little more money (and darn well worth every cent), get a Sako.
Not knowing your wishes as to whether a semi or bolt action is best suited for your style of shooting, you should buy one of each, try 'em out, then sell the one you don't want.
If you know it all; you must have been listening.<br>WEAR EAR PROTECTION!
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
Silverbox gently reminded me I should own a rifle, and saw an M1A in my future.
If a semi-auto gas-operated rotating bolt is tricky to work on for a first-time rifle owner (I have a dozen handguns), and all it will get me is quicker firing rate, it is not worth it to me.
I'm not in any rush, and prefer to fire each shot and view the card with binoculars.
Will the .243 give me the 300-500 yard shot, or do I need more weight?
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!
You don't have to work on M1A's, cept to clean it.
Even if you did its not really any more complicated then say a .45 auto..
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
It's kinda funny, DWS is trashing the M1a on the general board!
[:D][:D][:D][;)]
How does 7mmRemMag stack up against 30-06?
Anyone have a link to a good cartridge comparison chart?
Found it: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics.html
owner of an M1A, M1 Garand and Springfield '03 bolt action
rifle, unless you are a military afficianado or collector I think
the bolt action will best suit your purposes for highly accurate
target shooting and hunting if desired. I feel that the bolt
action is inherently more accurate which is why most but not all
of the military sniper rifles in use these days are bolt action
rifles, i.e. Remington 700, Barrett .50 Cal, etc.
I would also recommend the Ruger MK77 or the Remington 700. Both
are excellent bolt action rifles.
As far as the M1A or M14 Semi-Auto is concerned, there is not a
whole lot that can get you in trouble in CA other than a Flash
Hider or a large capacity magazine (over 10 rounds). I think that
the only type of stock available for these rifles is either the
wood, fiberglass or synthetic version of the standard military
stock. I've never seen a pistol grip stock or a folding stock
for the M14 semi-auto nor any other type of assault weapon add
ons. You would just be limited to a 10 round magazine and a
muzzle break instead of a flash hider.
The problem with thumbhole stocks in CA is that because they
have a hole in the buttstock to put your thumb through, the
gun-hating political types consider the grip a Pistol Grip which
is a no-no on a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a detachable
magazine as are flash hiders, barrel shrouds, bayonet mounts,
grenade mounts and folding stocks. Thumbhole stocks are perfectly
legal on bolt action rifles and lots of folks like them for
shooting comfort and accuracy on the better quality models.
Most of the assault weapon type add-ons are manufactured
primarily for semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15, Ruger
Mini-14/30, AK-47, Uzi, etc. All of which are banned in CA
except for the Rugers and the Fab-10 which is a 10 round
fixed magazine AR-15 type receiver.
I also agree that your best choices in caliber would be .308
or 30-06 as there is a good variety of inexpensive surplus
ammo available in both calibers as well as high quality commercial hunting and target loads.
Lastly, you would probably find the bolt-action both easier to
clean and to maintain on a regular basis and as there are fewer
moving parts less prone to mechanical problems and malfunctions.
I collect both semi-auto and bolt action rifles and love 'em
all but I feel that unless you want a military look or a higher
rate of fire, the bolt action is the way to go, particulary in
CA where they will probably try to ban any type of semi-auto
centerfire rifle in the future.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Frisco Billy
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.