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Odd Duck Old Colt?!
1KYDSTR
Member Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭
Hi folks,
Working at the range today I was shown an old Colt revolver that the guy was having "trouble" with and since I am the resident gun geek, they called me to the office to look at it. They had just sold him a box of 45 acp as the gunshop his grandpa took it to (recently deceased...inherited to thrilled, NON SELLING grandson)sold grandpa half moon clips and said to shoot 45 ACP (It was jacketed too...Ughhh)through it.
I nearly swallowed my toungue when I saw it. It had been refinished, but long ago and well. Really nice mellow blue, and nitre small parts and screws with the original grips. If anything was wrong witht he refinish, it was a little too polished, but they kept the patent lines and barrel legends etc clear as a bell and sharp...no wheelie job here. A Colt New Service in 455 Eley?! It has British Broad arrow proofs and a Tonne rating along with a whole slough of other things I don't necessarily recognize, but seem typically british from other revolvers of that proof type I have seen. All original parts, unaltered to my limited knowledge of Colts and mechanically very good with minimum end shake and cylinder play...it locked up really well and indexed beautifully; of course the rifling was mint. The checkering in the metal still snags skin, if that means anything...really crisp. I do not have pictures and he did not currently want serial numbers listed, but said a cursory internet search showed a 1913 manufacture date.
The questions I have would be...
1) Was the 455 Eley in the New Service a factory chambering, or was there a contract for WWI Britain? A custom order through Colt's London Distributor?
2) If legitimate, would this have been a sidearm purchased by officers through, perhaps, the Army Navy Store in london?
3) I told the guy to CEASE firing the 45 ACP through it (has 2 boxes of British Eley Manufactured 455...told him to keep 'em sealed and with the gun) and look for Fiocchi LEAD or something equivalent if he wants to shoot it... until he learns how to reload for it or get it done prefessionally. Seems to me it was a low pressure 250 gr lead semi pointed lead that moved at around 600 fps? Is that the number? Predates the 455 Webley round?
4) Where would the young man go for a factory letter to verify the configuration it left the factory in?
I am doing this to help him out for no fee, and would appreciate any help you could give in terms of collectability/rarity and especially an insurance value...I obviously know Bumpkus (sp?) about Colts'! I understand you have sketchy details to go from, but currently this is the best I can do. I already misplaced his e-mail address (DUHHH!) I hope in the car, so I will not see him until next weekend unless he e-mails me (or unless he's a slob too and lost MINE in his trash can....Ummm, I mean car)in the interim. I plan to recommend a letter to start, but that is only the start, I realize. So, what do you people think? Is it the $1000 insurance piece I told him I thought it was? Have I led him astray? All help appreciated. Many Thanks, Bill
Working at the range today I was shown an old Colt revolver that the guy was having "trouble" with and since I am the resident gun geek, they called me to the office to look at it. They had just sold him a box of 45 acp as the gunshop his grandpa took it to (recently deceased...inherited to thrilled, NON SELLING grandson)sold grandpa half moon clips and said to shoot 45 ACP (It was jacketed too...Ughhh)through it.
I nearly swallowed my toungue when I saw it. It had been refinished, but long ago and well. Really nice mellow blue, and nitre small parts and screws with the original grips. If anything was wrong witht he refinish, it was a little too polished, but they kept the patent lines and barrel legends etc clear as a bell and sharp...no wheelie job here. A Colt New Service in 455 Eley?! It has British Broad arrow proofs and a Tonne rating along with a whole slough of other things I don't necessarily recognize, but seem typically british from other revolvers of that proof type I have seen. All original parts, unaltered to my limited knowledge of Colts and mechanically very good with minimum end shake and cylinder play...it locked up really well and indexed beautifully; of course the rifling was mint. The checkering in the metal still snags skin, if that means anything...really crisp. I do not have pictures and he did not currently want serial numbers listed, but said a cursory internet search showed a 1913 manufacture date.
The questions I have would be...
1) Was the 455 Eley in the New Service a factory chambering, or was there a contract for WWI Britain? A custom order through Colt's London Distributor?
2) If legitimate, would this have been a sidearm purchased by officers through, perhaps, the Army Navy Store in london?
3) I told the guy to CEASE firing the 45 ACP through it (has 2 boxes of British Eley Manufactured 455...told him to keep 'em sealed and with the gun) and look for Fiocchi LEAD or something equivalent if he wants to shoot it... until he learns how to reload for it or get it done prefessionally. Seems to me it was a low pressure 250 gr lead semi pointed lead that moved at around 600 fps? Is that the number? Predates the 455 Webley round?
4) Where would the young man go for a factory letter to verify the configuration it left the factory in?
I am doing this to help him out for no fee, and would appreciate any help you could give in terms of collectability/rarity and especially an insurance value...I obviously know Bumpkus (sp?) about Colts'! I understand you have sketchy details to go from, but currently this is the best I can do. I already misplaced his e-mail address (DUHHH!) I hope in the car, so I will not see him until next weekend unless he e-mails me (or unless he's a slob too and lost MINE in his trash can....Ummm, I mean car)in the interim. I plan to recommend a letter to start, but that is only the start, I realize. So, what do you people think? Is it the $1000 insurance piece I told him I thought it was? Have I led him astray? All help appreciated. Many Thanks, Bill
Comments
To my memory, it was a British gov't contract arm for WWI. Has a bit of a preminum over a regular New Service. I believe Canada also bought some.
If you want a factory letter contact Colt's Research for one.
If a revolver marked .455 will accept .45 ACP on clips, it has been cut for the purpose by facing off the rear of the cylinder.
The .455 rim is only about .040" thick; standard US revolver cartridge rims are about .060", and the ACP rim-plus-clip (or .45 Auto Rim rim) is about .090". That is not going to run in an unaltered .455.
I don't know if the firing pin protrusion will be enough for a cut gun to shoot .455s. If I had it, I would load .45 Auto Rim brass to .455 specs.
The Colt New Service was made in a host of calibers more powerful than the .455 so there's no risk of blowing it up.
The markings are British proof house & military acceptance marks.
I picked one up in Korea in '53 or 54 so it must have come out of the Commonwealth Brigade. Oddly enough, Ordnance Major Items had a new US
holster for it so I carried it around some for the novelty of it.
V35: Sounds like a trip down memory lane for you! Are they fun to shoot? While they 455 Webley was jacketed, was the Eley? Are they roughly interchangeable?
Given it is a pre-war imported commercial and accepting my guess on condition, anyone have an idea for insurance replacement value? Thanks to all for the quick replies...the Guru's never sleep!
This is where a look by somebody knowledgeable in the area - not necessarily a gunsmith, but a "New Service person" - would be a big help.
We had a mobile machine shop in Div Ord. and I converted the gun to 30 carbine since it was useless as it was.
The barrel was a piece of 1917A1 water cooled MG barrel, the cylinder was bored and sleeved and a #2 ? tapered reamer closely matched the carbine chamber. A new recoil plate was also made with a smaller hole. Half moon clips were made.
The project was a mistake because the frame stretched after a few very noisy rounds. It was an oddity for the time.