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Wildcat cartridge
hadjii
Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
Anybody ever hear of the wildcat cartridge "257 Hot Tomalie"? I read a little bit about it in the new Barnes reloading manual, and it sounds rather intriguing. I was wondering also who a person would approach about getting a barrel chambered in it? Thanks
Comments
Anybody ever hear of the wildcat cartridge "257 Hot Tomalie"?
It's been around for a while now. While I rarely use the term, this particular cartridge come closest to the ideal of being 'overbore'. The best solution to getting better performance from a cartridge with this much capacity is to use the heaviest bullets available. Unfortunately, this limits us to the 120 gr. commercial bullets until Wildcat Bullets finally gets up and running (unless they are now...). The case holds 10 grains of powder more than the .257 Weatherby.
Here is the original article about the gunsmith and the cartridge:
http://www.2joutfitters.com/STWrifle.htm
"I was wondering also who a person would approach about getting a barrel chambered in it?"
One of the many talented gunsmiths that has an understanding of wildcat cartridges even though this one is basically a straightforward belted magnum.
In my opinion, the .25-06 Ackley Improved is just about the optimum capacity for high performance and efficiency from standardized reloading and standard length barrels.
And by the way, it's tamale.
Best.
I think a more efficient platform for both the 0.257, and 0.264 inch diameter bullets would be the WSM case, or RSAUM case. I'm still not sure if you could get all of it out of a 30" barrel with them either. It would be close with the 0.264". The WSSM based 6.5 Heaton works well in a 24" barrel.
Best
EDIT:
Nononsense,
Please accept my apology. In no way did I mean it was not a worthwhile project. I was implying that they hat their sights set on 4kFPS, and they had the attitude and drive to do it or not even start.
We in the shooting sports are well blessed to have people like them, and yourself who strive to open the next frontier. If it were not for that type, we would all still be shooting Winchester 1885's(punn intended Bert[:D][:D][:D]), and 45-90's...not that there is anything wrong with those either.
I for one, look forward to reading your posts, everyday, for hints of what is forthcoming. I do thank you for throwing the 6.5 Heaton at me...you have no idea how many coals stirred and arguments that has started at hunting camp and on the local gun club range...everyone wants to use it, and try to take a deer with it....
Thanks again Nononsense!
Edit: For Nononsense,
If you've got the time, money, and inclination, there is nothing wrong with playing with a super-hot cartridge that burns out barrels every few hundred rounds (as I suspect this "hot tamale" does).
All things considered, buying new barrels and installing them isn't THAT expensive, (say compared to new sports cars, Tiger Woods girlfriends [;)], tickets to high level sporting events, etc, etc), and I can think of far worse ways to spend your money and time.
If you KNOW you are going to be burning out barrels frequently with Mach IV rounds, you can choose to build your gun on a platform that makes replacing the barrels easy, and have them made in quantity to save time and effort.
I only pointed out this issue for Hadjii, because the article in question didn't mention barrel life, and if you aren't familiar with these super-hot rounds, it might not be obvious that fast throat erosion and quick barrel wear are potentially significant real-world drawbacks.
In terms of more-dollars-than-brains, if you can dream it up. . .chances are good that its already been done. . .multiple times.
I suppose the ultimate in this sort of ridiculous extreme would be to take a .50 .BMG and neck it down to .223 (or hell, .17). Guess what. . .its been done. . .
Here is a little more famous example of the same sort of thing:
Better reference image:
Lastly, here are some "cute" pistol rounds involving neck-downs to .10! Note the .22LR for scale!
http://www.saubier.com/smallcaliber/extreme.html
beantownshootah, that doesn't necessarily sound like a good thing. LOL. I was just intrigued by what this cartridge really is. I doubt on my meager wages that I could actually afford to invest in this project. Maybe I should get rid of my hay burners standing out in the barn and I could. Aw, that doesn't sound like a good idea either. I'll just stick to my Ruger Hawkeye in 257 Bob. Thanks for the info though.
See, you had the perfect .257 cartridge all along....[:D]
Your method of statement regarding the .257 Hot Tamale project sounds suspiciously like the story behind the original .250-3000 Savage.
Amateurs, cobblers, fame-seekers, name-makers and established professionals have all been looking for any one of the many 'Holy Grails' of the shooting world for well over several centuries since the discovery of gunpowder. It's no different than any of the competition sports being pursued around the world. Everyone's looking for the next best or greatest thing at any expense or so it seems.
I have personally been involve in several facets of project such as these. They're fun but they don't always succeed for various reasons. The world of wildcats is filled with the corpses of often highly acclaimed cartridges that have failed miserably in the process of extending our grasp of better knowledge while making money and achieving short term fame. Even our mainstream manufacturers have been suborned by these thoughts given the production of some questionable cartridges, with many of them being relegated to the scrap heap of obsolescence soon after release. You all know the examples.
The .257 Hot Tamale is an extreme cartridge developed to achieve a goal no matter how questionable the reasons. If you need to have the biggest, the best, the fastest, the most powerful or any other 'est', you should have one. Bear in mind that world of physics will win in the long run as there is no such thing as miracles when it comes to physics.
I don't have a problem with replacing my barrels if they require it because they are an expendable product or a consumable product, if you prefer. When they wear out, replace them. If you're too cheap to want to afford a cartridge such as this, stop right here with the discussion and move on to the average, staid, commercial cartridges that have been the backbone of hunting and shooting for the better part of a century. There's no shame, just common sense.
Best.
ADDED:
tsr1965,
No apology or thanks needed. I was simply trying to expand upon the premise of wildcats as it relates to the everyday world. The mention of the .250 Savage was for historical import:
Historical Notes:
"Designed by Charles Newton, the 250 Savage was introduced by the Savage Arms Company as a high velocity round for the Model 99 lever action rifle. The original loading used an 87 grain bullet at 3000 fps muzzle velocity, and Savage named it the 250-3000. One suspects the 87 grain bullet was chosen because it could be safely driven at 3000 fps with the powders then available. This allowed Savage to introduce it with the ever so sexy name 250-3000. Remember in 1915, when this cartridge was introduced, riflemen were still marvelling at cartridges achieving 2000 fps. About 1932, the 100 grain bullet load was marketed by Peters Cartridge Company and later the velocity of the 87 grain bullet was slightly increased. Now it is simply called the 250 Savage. The Savage Model 20 and 40 bolt action rifles also chambered the round as did the Winchester Model 54 and 70 bolt actions. Late in 1971, Savage announced that their Model 99 would be again available in this caliber. Others such as Ruger and Remington, have made rifles in this caliber also."
Source: Cartridges of the World
Best.