M1 Questions

Sparty_76

First, I will readily admit no knowledge of the M1's. I only acquire "non-military" firearms. I have noticed a lot of difference in prices on the M1's on the auction and am wondering, other than condition, what makes such a wide range of value? Are there variations? What is difference between a M1 and a M1 Garand? Are the M1 Garand's the more modern gun? It appears that the M1 Garand is less valuable. What are the most sought after calibers? How can you tell if one has been "re-arsenaled"? Did the re-arsenals occur only after WWII? Is the date of manufacture stamped on all the M1's? Is the guns from a certain time frame worth more than others? What would one look for to make sure it is one of the higher value M1's? I know this is a lot of questions, but there is a guy bringing three guns by my office tomorrow for me to look at and one of these is an M1 (the others being a Remington 1148 410 gauge and a S&W Chief Special revolver). And thus, I have no time to go buy a military book and study the M1's. I live in a small town some 30 miles away from anywhere that would have such books. I know about the 1148 and the Chief Special but no clue about the M1. The man is an older gentleman I know with no children. The gun was his issue during WWII and he said he has several clips (he didn't know how many) and the other accessories. The guy wants to sell all three or none. ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Sparty_76

I am a history nut, it is my passion after playing basketball, especially WWII and the Civil War. I also like to pheasant hunt but do not care for Midwestern Deer Hunting (just going out and sitting under a tree - I usually just fall asleep). I have several shotguns and two 22.LR rifles. With all my kids on their own it is time for dad to get some of the things he wants. It is about time I bought a centerfire rifle for my collection.

Since I want a rifle, I do not deer hunt, and love history I think I would like a M1 Garand. My dad and uncles carried one in WWII and Korea and my mom shot one in Basic Training (she was a WAC). So it makes sense. My brother-in law has one and it was fun to shoot. There seems to be several sources. I am looking at CMP as the best option. Maybe I can get one and have a new hobby and fix "her up". I am leaning towards and "06" but a .308 is not out of the question.

Becuase of a medical condition reccently I have had to learn to shoot a shotgun right handed using both eyes. Using an Easy-Hit sight I am up to 18 on the trap range. However iron sights on a rifle are almost impossible for me so far. I can shoot fairly well with a scope. The clip ejects upward on a M1 does it not? So that is my question, can a scope be placed on an M1? I would think drilling would lower the value, but I only buy guns never sell them. Any other tips on buying and M1 you could share with a novice I would appreciate.

THANKS!!!!

nmyers

A service grade (or higher) rifle from CMP is the best way for you to go. Avoid a lower grade rifle, as it likely will require a new barrel, which will not be easy or cheap. Or, you may be able to get a good buy on a resale of a CMP rifle.

It's possible to d&t an M1 receiver, but not easy. They are extremely hard & the mounts are quite limited. Fulton Armory sells a "scout" replacement handguard that will work well for a long eye relief scope, & requires no alteration to the rifle.

I'm not sure what "fix her up" means, but, as someone interested in the historical significance of this rifle, you probably don't want to do any permanent alterations. If you do, you will regret it later. [V]

Neal

jonk

Yes, some originally had scopes for sniping. They were side mount scopes. As the clip does eject up, and usually slightly to the right.

Theoretically you should keep both eyes open for shooting iron sights on any gun, but how well that works depends which of your eyes is dominant. The M1s peep sight helps with some myopia but if you just can't, you can't.

Don McManus

tfitz54:

You should be able to pick up a decent shooting M1 for around $ 600.00 - $ 700.00. As Neal noted, the CMP has them for less, but last time I checked, they were 4+ months out on shipping.

Regarding your scope question:

I put a Fulton Armory scope base on one of mine, and like it quite a bit. Installation requires the simple removal of the rear sight, and the mount attaches through the same mounting holes, so there is no alteration required to the rifle.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/MParts.htm

About 3/4 of the way down the page you will see this:



It is the scope mount used on the scoped Garand in the photo below.




As also noted, the M1D was issued with a scope mount base welded to the barrel and a 2.5 power scope mounted to this base. One of these in decent shape is going to cost you over $ 3,000.00.

Only weighed in to show you a couple of options, as I just accumulate toys to play with. Neal (nmyers) is much more knowledgeable regarding the Garand, and if Mark Christian checks in, you will find that he too, can offer valuable insight.

EDIT:

In response to the post by drobs, the horizontal offset is such that, if you like (as I do with this rifle) you can view through the scope with your left eye. This is not the case with the M1D, as the vertical and horizontal offsets are much smaller.

Don

gary wray

tfitz54.....good for you! Now it is time for the man to get the right toys! I am with you! And the new "toy" that you want is the best battlefield rifle of WWII (IMHO...and George Patton's!) Yes, CMP is an option but there are others out there including vet's groups who, believe it or not, are giving their Garands up as they weigh too much. So, keep a keen eye out. I found my Oct 1943 Springfield Garand in Gun Digest, advertised by a vet group from Michigan that were getting rid of all their Garands as their shoulders were giving out carrying them in parades and such! So, you never know. Around my area on the east coast they are available starting at @$800 or so. If you want to go for the real deal...a Garand sniper, you will pay plenty but you will always get your money out of it and get to shoot it free! Check out Don McM photos.....not often one sees three beautiful Johnson's lined up in a row! Six years ago a Johnson with bayonet came in the gunshop, I had it my hand, and didn't buy it. I am still biting my lip on that dumb mistake! Good luck on your Garand hunt! You will not be disappointed!

Sparty_76

Thank-you all!

Wow what a wonderful collection Don!!

I have heard of Johnson's but never really saw one and to see three in once collection wow? What are the +s and -s of them compared to the M-1. Why did the military choose the M1 over the Johnson?

As far as fixin-up I would only clean it up and do nothing permanent. If i did I would have a pro do it.

Again thanks all, Excellent advice!!!

gary wray

tfitz54.....as to the Johnson, the upside was it carried two more rounds than the Garand and could be topped off whereas the Garand could not...8 rounds or nothing. The Marines liked it but it came in a bit late (1941) as the Army was cranking up assembly lines for the Garand. It's downside was what you see in the photos, an exposed barrel that, it was thought, could not take a lot of damage as it was not protected as was the Garand. It was recoil operated and the Garand, of course, was gas operated. But the barrel could be removed quickly which made it popular with airborne marines. There was also a Johnson light machinegun and @10,000 or so were made of that weapon. Both were good designs but could not displace either the Garand or the BAR. Finding Johnsons around today is rather rare (and the light little bayonet is even harder to find!) which gets my blood boiling to think that I passed up on both! And Don has three! Hope this helps.

rstbkt69

The CMP has stripped down D models for $1500. I think the scope mount is included and that is all. No scope no pad and no flash hider. But the mount already being there is a big plus. I have two M1s and they are a hoot to shoot. I thought about converting one to 308 but decided to wait and just find a Navy 308 version. Even though I love my M1's I would suggest you look for a more modern rifle in a 308 or 223 cal. The 30-06 ammo is hard to find and even though the cmp has a boat load of ammo going up for sale soon when that batch runs out no telling what you you will have to pay for ammo if you don't learn to reload. Don't shoot comercial loaded 30-06 out of an M1 unless you buy and adjustable gas plug. I have seen comercial loads break the hammer on my friends rifle.

v35

I believe the Johnson's big problem was it didn't lend itself to mounting a proper bayonet.
Being recoil operated, any mass attached to the moving barrel affects the recoil operation.
Additionally, the spindly unsupported barrels probably bent easily
with vigorous bayonet work.

drobs

If you are shooting rifles lefty, your going to have major issues with Don's scope mount. Your really going to have to cock your head over the top of the stock to see the scope on that offset mount.

You might want to look at a Springfield M1A. It has the wood the wife likes and is a good shooting gun with lots of scope mounting possibilities.

Sparty_76

Thanks everyone! Just some more points.

I am trying to convert myself to shooting right handed. On the trap range I am up to 16-18s(out of 25) with both eyes open and using an "Easy Hit" sight on my SBE II.

I would love an M1A and as much as I deserve one I am not sure I can justify $1800 for something that will be sitting in the gun cabinet 99.9% of the time. Cannot find any used ones much under $1500 or many of them, so I guess they must hold their resale very well. I already have a $5,000 boat that sits in the garage 99.9% of the time.

I did not know you could not shoot just any old 30-06 ammo in a M-1 Garand. Can a gunsmith add an adjustable gas plug easily? Can a 308 M1 shoot commercial ammo?