In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
H&R Handy Gun 410 with 19-1/2" Barrel?
davidefs
Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
This type of gun has a lot of information on it here and in other forums, but not with this configuration, or not that I've seen. Note that it is not in my possession, I'm only asking about it out of curiosity.
It is an H&R Handy Gun with a smooth bore .410 barrel. The barrel is 19-1/2" and has what looks like a weld ring at about 8-1/2" from the muzzle as if it were added on to an original 11" or cut down to that before being added on to, if it was. The gun has a removable wire stock that hooks into the bottom and attaches to the top of the handle.
I'm wondering if anyone knows if it is manufactured this way or modified, and in either case if it is legal to own without NFA registration, since it does have a more than legal length barrel and a stock, albeit detachable. It has the stamps "H&R Handy Gun" and "410-12m/m" in their normal places but no apparent serial number. Where would the serial number be? And if it does happen to be legal, whether original or not, would it be valued in the same range as the NFA/AOW guns? Thanks in advance for your help.
It is an H&R Handy Gun with a smooth bore .410 barrel. The barrel is 19-1/2" and has what looks like a weld ring at about 8-1/2" from the muzzle as if it were added on to an original 11" or cut down to that before being added on to, if it was. The gun has a removable wire stock that hooks into the bottom and attaches to the top of the handle.
I'm wondering if anyone knows if it is manufactured this way or modified, and in either case if it is legal to own without NFA registration, since it does have a more than legal length barrel and a stock, albeit detachable. It has the stamps "H&R Handy Gun" and "410-12m/m" in their normal places but no apparent serial number. Where would the serial number be? And if it does happen to be legal, whether original or not, would it be valued in the same range as the NFA/AOW guns? Thanks in advance for your help.
Comments
The feds unfortunately would have the last word on it though.
Because it has been bubbaed to make it legal don't see how it would be a big buck item like a original short barreled HG that was papered prior to 68. More a wall hanger type conversation piece to shot how dumb the federal firearms laws are.
Hey, if it's otherwise legal because of being "bubbaed" into a 19-1/2" barrel, what if the stock was welded on permanently? Same thing?
Edited to add: I am pretty sure but hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong, since the Handy Gun is on the list of guns which must be registered with them under the above act, it still must be registered with them, no matter what modifications have been made! Get caught with it, without it being registered and you may have to spend some quality time behind bars and you will never be allowed to own it or any other gun again.
Anyway, since you all were kind enough to offer your knowledge, I thought you might be interested in the regs:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf
"Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components.
Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.
For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel.
Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified
firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a
flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit."
Bill, the gun does have a barrel and there is no intention toward removing it. The regs say an NFA gun can be modified to have a barrel of at least 18" (this one is modified to 19-1/2") and if also overall more than 26" (this one is 36" with the stock), then it is no longer an NFA firearm.
Again though, I will defer to the ATF and legal counsel before making a final decision since I haven't read every word everywhere about the government's distinction between "removeable" and "easily removeable" or whatever goofiness they may have come up with. Thank you all again for your interest and help.