1886 Winchester

RHM

Bert;
Sorry about replying in this forum, the comp with your address crashed.
Re. my '86, serial number 134150 with suffix A.
Cody letter says: carbine, 45-70,
rec'd in warehouse May 18/05,
rec'd in warehouse Sept.25/05 Lyman front sight and sights fitted, shipped Sept. 26/05,
order number 26591-A

I haven't been able to find out if all '86 carbines had the saddle ring and strap studs (mine has both). I thought maybe the Cody letter would perhaps mention that sort of detail.
I don't know if the rear sight is a 'correct' one but it is a flip -back type(about 1 and 1/2 inches tall) but has no yard markings on it.
I am well pleased with the Cody letter, it and the local history of this Winchester go together well. At some point I will be able to have pictures to show how it 'aged' in northern Canada.
Regards,
Jim Purdy

RHM

Hi I have an 1886 winchester in pretty nice shape. I was going to sell it for a friend,but after getting it home and looking it over real good I discovered that it originally was chambered for 38-56 WCF and sometime ago the former owner had it rechambered for 45-70 govt. my dilema is that the former owner has passed away and he had it valued at over 3700.00 but because of the rechamber I don't think it would be worth near that much. Am I correct? The serial number dates it at around 1890 and it does have the octagon barrel.Very nice condition as noted before,Very nice patina color.non-cracked stock and very very fine pitting, tight action and fully functional. Any Ideas as to possible actual value? Thanks to all who answer.I believe it is the original barrel.

RHM

I have just purchased a 1886 33 Winchester. I have no idea if the gun would cycle before but as usual I always have a new purchase checked out by a smith. It needed cleaning bad so he went ahead cleaned it. I got ammo which was made by a well known company and received the 200 grain FTX Hornady bullet ammo. When I try to cycle the gun the round will come out of the magazine about half way at a angle and lock everything up. We checked the ammo for length and it is right. Could the pointed ammo be the cause of my problem? For an old gun it has very little wear.

RHM

Can somebody tell me if only certain caliber 1886 Winchesters had a octagon barrel. I read where the 33 only came in a round barrel and I was told most of the 33 caliber guns where shot gun butt stocks with half magazine.

RHM

what size is the magazine tube on the 1886 winchester and how wide is it. i have 2 26 inch tubes but different sizes.

RHM

Hello

I have a 1886 Winchester in .45-70. It is in good shape; however when the gun is cocked to the second position (safety), pulling the trigger will cause the hammer to fall. I'm sure that it is not supposed to be that way (although I don't think there is enough force to cause a cartridge to fire). On inspection the hammer looks good and does not appear to be worn (although I did not remove it). Any suggestions?

thanks

Jim

RHM

A friend gave me this Winchester 1886 yesterday. It was originally .38-56, but was converted (butchered) years ago by the owner of the Pony Express Gun Shop in California to .45-70. The barrel has been cut down, as has the magazine tube. The original barrel was re-bored and the sights relocated and replaced. The only redeeming feature of the chop-job is that the owner left a three-leaf express sight on it and didn't realize it until after he had let my friend buy it. I received the following historical information on it from the Buffalo Bill Historical Center:

Serial number applied on 4-2-1898
Date In: 4-12-1898
Type: rifle
Caliber: 38/56
Barrel Shape: octagon
Trigger: plain
Date Shipped: 4-1-1899
Order Number: 25465

As poor of condition as this rifle (though no pitting), I would like to bring it back as close to original condition as possible with the only variations being for practical use. I had hoped the historical data would have indicated barrel length and/or magazine tube configuration (as well as where it shipped to), but, since it doesn't, I will have to figure out what length it might likely have shipped with. Since I don't know exactly how it shipped, I can't very well return it to it's exact original condition, so I'm thinking about not returning it to .38-56. The .38-56 caliber, in factory loadings, is expensive and hard to find. With .38-56 WCF all but out of the running, I am considering a few others. .45-70 is practical, easy to reload for, and I already have a Marlin in this caliber. .45-90 would be a bit more interesting in the 1886, but it would be unlikely I would actually bother reloading it, so I would end up using .45-70 in it and probably getting a little less accuracy than if it were reamed for .45-70. .50-110 would be a great conversation piece, and probably worth reloading for when I take this rifle hunting, but otherwise very expensive and not the most practical. I have always admired Turnbull's restoration work, but I can't see putting that kind of money into a rifle that I am neither selling nor making a safe queen. I have been looking at Hunter Restorations lately, and have seen a few people post their high regards for the owner. His work looks good and starts at half the price of Turnbull's. I realize that I may get what I pay for, but the few photos I have found look good, and with a base rifle that was free, it would probably be worth having it semi-"restored." I am looking at keeping the three-leaf express sight on whatever new barrel I go with, as I think it is pretty neat. Any advice and recommendations would be greatly appreciated, as I know there is a lot of knowledge here. Thanks.

RHM

What was total production for the 1886 Deluxe rifle? Were all stocks and for ends checkered or were some without checkering? Thanks for any help!

Hawk Carse

Bert can help.
In the meanwhile, I'd assume this was a pretty plain vanilla model that started out with a 26" barrel and full magazine.
But if you are going to get away from the original caliber, why not make something unusual out of it, like an extra light weight?
I would hope you would mark it so it could not be passed off as original.

RHM

What are some of the rarer 1886 variants, and which are your preferences and why? I definitely don't want a carbine, as every lever action now seems to be, and I have more than my fair share. I will try to find some photos of anything referenced as a less-common variant of this rifle. I would definitely like to stay with an octagon barrel, as I have never owned one before and really like it. This rifle will be marked and identified as a restoration so it cannot be passed off as original.

Bert H.

As Hawk mentioned, it was originally made with a 26-inch full octagon barrel, and full length magazine tube.

38-56 can be readily formed from 45-70.

Mike Hunter would be a good choice for restoring it back to original.

tsr1965

RHM,

Very nice shooter you have there. I might be inclined to use it as is, and look for another in a higher state of condition, and rarity. I do admire Doug Turnbull's work too, as they are true works of art. However, that said, Turnbull does go way above and beyond factory original specifications. The majority of his work does not come close to duplicating factory work, especially in the case hardening. As Bert suggested, Mike Hunter does exceptional work in making it look factory. If you do go that route, to have something to shoot, and be able to afford to shoot, I see no reason to change it from 45-70. However, if you want something to start a good conversation, then 50-110 all the way!

Best

dandak1

I have just finished rebuilding one in 33 WCF. I did chambering/bluing/wood work, Turnbull did case coloring. Looking at your photos I have to tell you that there are more original redeeming features on your gun than at first blush. Your receiver is nice...no extra holes (hard to find nowadays) no deep scratches, no deep pits. The buttstock and forearm have no initials carved in them, no cracks, wood to metal fit looks nice, and have honest aging. Honestly, I would think twice about modifying it. If it were mine, (and you asked for our 2 cents here[:)]) I would look far and wide on all the auction sites and at gunshows until I found an original bbl in 38-56 and an original mag tube. The mag tube would be easier to find, but I run across barrels ocassionally....it may take awhile. Actually Doug Turnbull used to be a source...they get these guns in and rebuild them with new barrels. The old ones get sold. I have no idea what Turnbull does with them now, but the fact is a source is out there for old barrels. Anyway, if you want a "project gun" consider this gun a project to restore to "original old" instead of "original new", then either keep it or sell it off at a profit and use that money to buy a beater that you can have rebuilt. Now I'll also tell you the high end collectors wont like this gun, but the majority of collectors cannot afford the 90% blue guns that Wilson and the auction catalogs insist you have to own to be a real collector. Yours would generate a lot of interest.
When I was looking for an 1886 to rebuild into my dream gun, I had to pass many that were too nice to modify. Just saying not to take the originality of what you have too lightly. Also, you may run across a cut down barrel, cut down to 24" seems pretty common. These still look nice on these guns and might "do" until a full length comes along.
Any of the cartridges the 86 came in are easy to get fodder for, enough specialty reloaders are out there to keep ammo available, if pricey on some of the oddball ones. 50 caliber conversions require about 6 or 7 modifications that most people are not aware of...the lack of taper on the cartridge meant Winchester had to bevel and funnel out things on the receiver, the lever, the mag tube, and the barrel. Looked into it myself when i was rebuilding my 1886 that was a real beater and shot terribly.
BTW, that rear sight is AWESOME. too bad it is not mentioned on the letter.
Finally, keep the old barrel you have. It may be possible to reline it to 38-56 again and used for low pressure blackpowder loads. The fact that the person who modified it didnt stamp out the old caliber would be a blessing here.Some one out there will have a use for it if you list it on the auction side of this site.

RHM

I appreciate your insight and advice. I very well may just replace the barrel and magazine tube as you suggest. I guess I'll start searching and talk to Turnbull and Hunter Restorations about take-off barrels and magazine tubes. I showed it to my local gunsmith yesterday and he said he had re-barreled a few over the years. Whatever I do, I have time to think about it as nothing will likely happen until I return from overseas at the end of the year. I do like the character in the wood on this rifle. Thanks!

v35

I remember when conversion of rifles in obsolete calibers and military rifles to sporters was the smart thing to do.
A long barreled 1886 rifle is a heavy gun to carry around in the woods.
That conversion made a handy gun out of the original though I'd rather have put a smokeless barrel on it.

reggie

I just read about your 1886 rifle amd pretty much agree with the advise given you ,if I were you I would keep it 38-56 26" oct barrel
full mag.If you find an original 38-56 oct it can be relined so it can not be seen, which I can do for a nominal cost, the rest of the gun I would leave as it is. If you want it color cased I know a person who doe's color case work as Winchester did in the beginning.
Reg Holloway HMSgunparts.com San Jose, Cal