S&W DA45 info needed

Wulfmann

I picked up a S&W DA45 from a retired deputy this past weekend.

he said it was a S&W 1917 and I got it cheap and did not give it a good look over being I shoot 45ACP a revolver in 45ACP is a no brainer for me so knew it would make a good hidden gun in the house or glove box in the truck

As I looked more closely I realized the stamping on the barrel was partially hidden under the front site (see picture). Notice the stampings have the end of Springfield as in Field Mass USA and under that 1908 Sept 14 1909 so I am assuming the gun was originally made in 1909 and it is a model 1908 (Is there such a thing as a S&W 1908 DA45???)

It looks to me like this had a longer barrel and was therefore shortened meaning it has a low value dollar wise and I can not find this in the blue book.

Opinions appreciated.

Wulfmann

nmyers

Bingo! You're right on the money. It originally had a 5.5" barrel, & Bubba has had his way with it. If you remove the grips, I think you will find that the frame has also been cut.

According to the latest edition of the Blue Book of Altered, Mutilated, & Refinished Guns, yours would sell in the $100-200 range.

Neal

EDIT: Patent dates have nothing to do with the date of manufacturer. An antique firearm is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898. It isn't even a C&R, as it has been altered. I assume that it still has the unmolested SN on the frame; if it doesn't, you may want to consider returning it, as that is considered bad ju-ju.

Wulfmann

With a manufacture date of 1909 does that make it an antique and no longer an FFL required item???

Wulfmann

dfletcher

quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
With a manufacture date of 1909 does that make it an antique and no longer an FFL required item???

Wulfmann


This is a Model 1917 and not an antique, it's not in its original configuration so also not C & R eligible even though it's obviously over 50 years old. I'd guess 1909 is just a patent date.

The hammer spur has been fiddled with also.

I'll bet a gunsmith with some talent could turn it into quite a little large caliber snub nose revolver. There's not a whole lot of difference between it and newer manufactured 45 ACP/AR revolvers. I wouldn't stuff anything +P into it though. Or an original 5.5" barrel attached to get it nearly the same as issued.

Wulfmann

I am not sure this is really a model 1917.

I am only guessing on that but because the US Government contracted to build the S&W 45ACP revolver in 1917 and therefore adopted the military designation for it as a model 1917 does not mean previously built guns were now all categorized by that term.

Don't mean that in a debate way just as a statement that begs comment and counter point as I do not know much at all about these.

Now, as to shortening the barrel means it is no longer a C&R does that mean if I shorten the barrel on an Ole Bess it becomes classed as a modern firearm???

Wulfmann

Hawk Carse

There are no "previously built guns." Smith & Wesson did not build .45 ACP revolvers before the 1917 Army contract. They later built commercial 1917s and other .45 ACP/AR models.

The revolver illustrated has had the barrel sawn off and a front sight rather sloppily soldered on. The hammer spur has been built up for easy single action cocking and it looks like the butt has been altered to roundbutt configuration to accept the Pachmayr Compact grip.

If I had come by it cheaply (I would not have come by it any other way.), I would have the front sight redone more neatly and otherwise leave it alone as a big bore shooter.

dfletcher

quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
I am not sure this is really a model 1917.

I am only guessing on that but because the US Government contracted to build the S&W 45ACP revolver in 1917 and therefore adopted the military designation for it as a model 1917 does not mean previously built guns were now all categorized by that term.

Don't mean that in a debate way just as a statement that begs comment and counter point as I do not know much at all about these.

Now, as to shortening the barrel means it is no longer a C&R does that mean if I shorten the barrel on an Ole Bess it becomes classed as a modern firearm???

Wulfmann


I'm sure it's a 1917 - you may see the tail end of "Property of the United States" on the underside of the barrel remaining - maybe only a ...tes". And I think I see a "flaming bomb" on the frame just below the top strap, behind the cylinder opening. With the butt rounded off the serial number is gone, I think that's the only place it's stamped.

Regarding C & R and "original condition" and Old Betsy's shortened barrel - shoot, it seems to get more & more inexact regarding "original condition" but I'd say lopping off the barrel means it's no longer C & R and would be treated as a modern gun. I've had a C & R for about 15 years and this subject, it seems to me, is one that could use some attention and definition. The manufacturers, importers and dealers get all the attention, the C & Rs not so much.

Wulfmann

Thanks for the comments. My statements were meant to teach me something about this gun and why altering it would change its classification.
I picked it up for $150.00 flat with 18 rounds of hollow points, 5 rounds of CCI shot shell and 3 moon clips figuring since I own 3 semi auto 45ACP this would be a good hide away gun using the same ammo and if/when one of these forum members gets their TEOTWAWKI wish it will be good barter.

Wulfmann

Tflogger

You got a good deal, any functioning S&W 1917 for $150 is a good deal.
You could parts it out and do pretty good.

CDMead

While there is a model 1909 chambered in 45 Colt, yours is a model 1917.

I can tell because the barrel on a model 1909 does not have a shoulder where it screws into the frame. Yours clearly does.

The other thing you could have is what is referred to as a model 1937 by collectors. These were made for Brazil and would have a Brazillian crest on the right side.

I would agree the barrel has been shortened from the original 5 1/2 inches and the grip has been changed from square to round butt configuration.

If you take the grips off you should see evidence of removed markings and a lanyard ring loop on the bottom of the frame.

Other than that, if it's tight, for $150 I think you did just fine.

Herschel

Thanks to Google I now know that TEOTWAWKI means "The end of the world as we know it."

Hawk Carse

quote:While there is a model 1909 chambered in 45 Colt, yours is a model 1917.
I can tell because the barrel on a model 1909 does not have a shoulder where it screws into the frame.

I can tell because a model 1909 is a Colt and the OP's revolver is a Smith & Wesson. Colt made 1917s, too.

rufe-snow

If I were you I would be making sure that it was legal, prior to doing anything else. The serial number on the S & W 1917's was on the butt. When bubba butchered the grip so that the Packmeyrs would fit he might have defaced or removed the serial number. The feds take a very dim view of this, and have been known to throw folks in the slammer if they catch them with guns that have buggered serial numbers. Maybe that's the reason that the guy who had it, dumped it for $150?

Wulfmann

Well, the guy is a retired deputy and went to high school with me in the 60's. SN is intact, but thanks for pointing that out.

It "does" require moon clips to shoot. Found that out the hard way today. Oddly every other cylinder left the ACP case out enough to fire it the other 3 seemed to be set in so no hit on the primer.

Could just be a coincidence.
Still i have to wonder how a gun dated September 14, 1909 is a model 1917. That is like making a model year 2019 today.

Wulfmann

rufe-snow

quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann

Still i have to wonder how a gun dated September 14, 1909 is a model 1917. That is like making a model year 2019 today.





9/14/09 is the patent date, not the model, or date of manufacturer.

Google, "Smith & Wesson Model 1917" for information and photos, so you will convince yourself it's not a Model 1908 made in 1909.

Txs

quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
Still i have to wonder how a gun dated September 14, 1909 is a model 1917. That is like making a model year 2019 today.This design originally came out as a .44 Special, known as the Second Model Hand Ejector, which is why it displays that earlier patent date.

In 1917 S&W modified this model to fire .45 ACP and it was subsequently adopted by the US Govt. who assigned it the designation of 'Smith and Wesson M1917 Revolver'.

Other than the modifications to fire this rimless caliber and it's barrel length the M1917 was the same gun as the Second Model Hand Ejector, which is why it did not require a seperate patent.

Hawk Carse

quote:Still i have to wonder how a gun dated September 14, 1909 is a model 1917. That is like making a model year 2019 today.

Uh, no, it is like still making a model year 1911 today.
Ever see one of those?

Wulfmann

Thanks Txs, that explains why in a way i can now understand.

The other 1917 I had would fire without moon clips but this one requires them for regular 45ACP ammo. That would seem to indicate some models had different cylinders or perhaps this one has had it changed????

At post 16 every new on is IBTL[:D]

Wulfmann