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357 mag 4" barrel

victorlvlbvictorlvlb Member Posts: 5,004
edited October 2006 in Ask the Experts
I'm headed to the gun shop this friday.I'm looking for a 357 mag for concealed carry.Would a four inch barrel be small enough to conceal?

Comments

  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Depends on how you want to carry it. Maybe for a vertical shoulder holster, or an inside the waistband holster. Otherwise it will probably stick out too much (such as an external hip holster, ankle, or horizontal shoulder)

    There are some 357 and 38's with 3 and 3 1/2 inch barrels. It also depends on other parts of the gun such as the frame which may affect overall size.

    You might be better off with a 38, and load it with +p, or +p+ A .357 isn't needed for concealed carry unless you have a barrel of 2 inches or less.
  • jcook01jcook01 Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look for a S&W model 13-4. They're military and police 3" 357 mags built on a K frame. From what I understand back in the late 80s the FBI sawed off one of the then current 13-3 four inch models for concealed carry experimental purposes. The FBI liked the results so much that they then contacted S&W and then the S&W 13-4 3" was born. I have one, picked it up here earlier this year, the bluing on it is perfect. It's a sweet little shooter but can kick some with heavier loads, but still less kick than the current short barreled airweight magnums.

    Regards, John
  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't saw off any rifled barrel - unless you know a gunsmith who really knows how to repair and modify. If you take off the muzzle of a rifled barrel, you lose the crowning - thereby more than likely making your gun wildly inaccurate. Or, at least, much less accurate compared to the way it was before.

    This may not matter at point blank range - but if you are attacked by someone 10 yards away, it damn sure will
  • Dak To 68Dak To 68 Member Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lookm into a S&W model 60, just right, small frame, 3" barrel, not heavy, a real blaster but you're not going to run a ton of rounds through it. Hopefully you never have to use it for it's intended purpose.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,529 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jcook01
    Look for a S&W model 13-4. They're military and police 3" 357 mags built on a K frame. From what I understand back in the late 80s the FBI sawed off one of the then current 13-3 four inch models for concealed carry experimental purposes. The FBI liked the results so much that they then contacted S&W and then the S&W 13-4 3" was born. I have one, picked it up here earlier this year, the bluing on it is perfect. It's a sweet little shooter but can kick some with heavier loads, but still less kick than the current short barreled airweight magnums.

    Regards, John


    Actually, a Maryland State Trooper ( who had a gun shop ) by the name of George Wessinger cut off the very first 4" barrelled Mod. 13's to 3" for the F.B.I. F.B.I. then ask S&W to manufacture the guns in 3" configuration for them. I seen the actual documentation in Mr. Wessingers books. While working on a Colt Python for me I later showed him the 13-3 gun below. It was not his work according to the ser. no. Those rare cut down guns could be distiquished by the lettering on the barrel not being centered and front site work. Mr. Wessinger lived about 20 mile from my home and passed away just a few months ago. He was one great registered pistol guild. The 13-3 3"below is unfired , unturned.

    DSCN0078.jpg
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, a 4 inch 357 (like a S&W model 66) can be carried concealed. Not easily. It is also a heavy weapon, in comparison to others. If you find you are leaving it at home because of size/ weight, you have defeated the purpose of concealed carry (gunfight rule #1- Have a gun) A small frame 38 Special or 357 with a 2 inch barrel is lighter, easier to conceal without having to wear a suit coat, parka, etc. Find a friendly dealer, see what he has in stock, what advice he can offer. I am 5'8", and have carried a 1911 concealed- but you WILL know the weapon is there when you wear it. I use an inside the waistband for a 2 inch revolver- it is comfortable, a loose golf shirt covers well without printing. There are a bunch of small frame pistols like the KelTec that are smaller- but I like a revolver (personal preference) Good luck- and pick one you WILL carry.
  • GUNFUNCOGUNFUNCO Member Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just my 2 cents worth.

    I have carried a gun on and off-duty for 20 years. Back when we were issued 4 inch revolvers as duty guns, I almost never carried it off duty. When I did, I carried in a shoulder holster with a jacket or sweatshirt over it. What a pain!

    Depending on where you live or your self protection needs, I would recommend the following.

    A 2 or 3 inch J-frame Smith & Wesson in 38 or 357. The 357's are heavy except in the scandium version. I like and have carried a model 642 and a model 38. I just slip the gun in my right front pocket as I head out the door. Never carry anything else in that pocket so you don't have to worry that something may catch on the trigger and or foul up the hammer (on the 38). Remember a speedstrip with extra ammo. I usually carry that in my right rear pocket.

    On the occasion that I headed to Detroit for an evening, I usually carried my Sig P229. Now that I am retired and can carry what I want, I usually take my Glock 23 or my Kahr 40. The Mini Glocks or a lightweight 45 Commander-syle gun would also do fine.

    A 2 or 3 inch model 19 or 66 Smith & Wesson would also do the job quite nicely but the Glock carries more ammo and is faster to reload.

    Buy anything heavier than that and I doubt you'll carry it very often-just too much trouble. I put the lightweight as the priority or you will not have it when you need it. I still carry even when I go pick up the kids or go out to the mailbox (1/8th mile) or to walk the dog on my few acres.

    for what it's worth....
  • fastcarsgofastfastcarsgofast Member Posts: 7,179
    edited November -1
    I carry a S&W 640 in .357 magnum. It is 5 shot with a 21/2 barrell. I usually carry it in an ankle holster. Due to the fact that you can't realy get true .357 velocity out of the short barrell I just load it with .38+p. If youre going to buy one with a barrell under 31/2 inches you might as well get a .38 special. As far as extra ammo goes. I hope you never to reload. But I carry a Kel Tec and some times a Rossi model 88 as well. I guess I would just swap guns instead of reloading if it came down to it. 3 guns might seem like overkill to most but Mom always told me to bring enough to share.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,529 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fastcarsgofast
    I carry a S&W 640 in .357 magnum. It is 5 shot with a 21/2 barrell. I usually carry it in an ankle holster. Due to the fact that you can't realy get true .357 velocity out of the short barrell I just load it with .38+p. If youre going to buy one with a barrell under 31/2 inches you might as well get a .38 special. As far as extra ammo goes. I hope you never to reload. But I carry a Kel Tec and some times a Rossi model 88 as well. I guess I would just swap guns instead of reloading if it came down to it. 3 guns might seem like overkill to most but Mom always told me to bring enough to share.


    That statement is exactly what the F.B.I. did on the Model 13's. Issue ammo was .38+P's cause the women couldn't qualify with the .357's. However , claiming a .38+P and a .357 ballistically are the same out of a 3" barrel is not correct. The .357 has WAY more get up and go... On the other hand a 2.5" snubbie does not have a long extractor rod under the barrel. Empties can get hung up in the cylinder upon empty of the gun. Whereas a 3" gun up uses a full length extractor..[:)]
  • fastcarsgofastfastcarsgofast Member Posts: 7,179
    edited November -1
    [/quote]

    That statement is exactly what the F.B.I. did on the Model 13's. Issue ammo was .38+P's cause the women couldn't qualify with the .357's. However , claiming a .38+P and a .357 ballistically are the same out of a 3" barrel is not correct. The .357 has WAY more get up and go... On the other hand a 2.5" snubbie does not have a long extractor rod under the barrel. Empties can get hung up in the cylinder upon empty of the gun. Whereas a 3" gun up uses a full length extractor..[:)]
    [/quote]
    My bad I meant to put 3 inches but hickuped after I put 21/2 inches earlier. Should have proof read a little better or typed a little slower. Anyway good catch and youre exactly right. The .357 is better out of 3 inch barrells.
  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A .357 doesn't make use of its potential powder charge out of a barrel 2 inches or less. However, it is still going to produce more energy than a 38 +p And you definitely need more enegry out of such a short barrel. I don't think I've heard of any 38, not even a +p+ producing more than 250 foot pounds from a 2 inch. In fact, I think most loads are less.
  • fastcarsgofastfastcarsgofast Member Posts: 7,179
    edited November -1
    Again youre correct. However the cost benefit ratio is so drastically decreased you may as well buy a .38. When I can walk in the local gun shop and get a .38 a holster and 100 rounds or a .357 I'de take the .38 any day. Especially considering that the .357 ,though being better, is not so much better by leaps and bounds. And before we start with the "is your life worth it argument" I challenge anyone to show me one example of an assailant walking away from 2 in the chest and 1 in the head from a .38 or any other comparable round. If you feel that you need the added velocity of a .357 go for it. Heck if I could conceal a 6 inch revolver I would carry one but in .44 magnum not .357 and deffinately not in .38, even though .38 is good enough to get it done. I just try to present a cost benefit point of view to effective concealed carry.
  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you ever had to use a 6 inch .44 mag, it would probably land you in a heap of trouble. Seeing as that just about anything other than a truly frangible bullet is going to cut right through a human being, and likely hit another somewhere within the next 500 yards or so of where the shot was fired.

    Even though criminals are often charged with murder if someone other than their intended victim dies as a result of something related to their crime - you would, at minimum, at least be sued in civil court for accidentally hurting or killing someone with a cartridge that was never designed for self defense.
  • Dak To 68Dak To 68 Member Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Two in the chest from a .38 might or might not do it, one in the head though ends the arguement.
  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
    Two in the chest from a .38 might or might not do it, one in the head though ends the arguement.


    This is usually true. This depends if the bullet passes through the brain, and if so, what area of the brain.

    Much harder to aim for a head shot though when someone is trying to kill you.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Clarentavious
    A .357 doesn't make use of its potential powder charge out of a barrel 2 inches or less. However, it is still going to produce more energy than a 38 +p And you definitely need more enegry out of such a short barrel. I don't think I've heard of any 38, not even a +p+ producing more than 250 foot pounds from a 2 inch. In fact, I think most loads are less.


    To be really picky about this a .357 doesn't get to its full potential even out of an 8 inch barrel. Its a very inefficent round and its why .357s from rifles shoot much harder.

    Here's a nice piece on .357 vs 38 from a snubnose:
    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

    The problem with using the round from short barreled guns is the "cost" of that extra power is a *LOT* more muzzle flash and blast with the powder not used to propel the bullet burning in front of the muzzle. Personally, I don't think the ballistic advantage is worth the increase in noise, flash, and recoil, especially when this is something you are most likely going to be using at point blank range.

    To address your other point, the best .38+P rounds can do 275 foot-pounds out of snubbies. Here is one documented at 280 ft-pounds:

    http://www.thegunzone.com/speer135jhp38sp.html (scroll down)

    I'd bet there are probably combinations of individual 2" guns and +P ammo that could give you 300 foot pounds. . .(which is still LESS powerful than standard 9mm ammo, by the way). Advantage over 9mm is that 38 can shoot heavier bullets (158 grain), and the revolver is intrinsically more reliable.

    With respect to the original question about concealed carry of a 4" barrel revolver. I've done it, and I'll add that while *possible* to do it, its a big heavy gun and you're basically limited to doing so under a coat or other thick covering garment. Wouldn't be my first choice.

    If you want a .357 gun for concealed carry try one with a 2.5 inch barrel.
  • ClarentaviousClarentavious Member Posts: 800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Did you even read that article? The 280 foot pounds was from the 6 inch barrel, not the 2 inch. Check before posting.

    Don't mean to be rude, but try again.
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