Anyone know about antique safes?

41 nut

I have an old cast steel safe manufactured in the 1800's (if I'm looking at the manufacture date on the lockwork it is dated 1866. Only markings on the safe is one of the front castors is marked A. Morse while the other one is marked Boston. I use it for handgun storage. Safe stands 41" high with 6" of that being castors, and is 26" wide by 24" deep. It is linned with 4" of concrete. All of a sudden it got hard to open and close. It got the point in about 3 days I could hardly open it. As one of the locking lugs was loose I thought that was the problem and took the door apart. With everything out of the door including about 300lbs of concrete it still binds. The left side of the door and top of the door on the left side seem to have moved making them bind. Hinges are slightly loose, but don't seem to be loose enough to cause the problem. In fact the lower hinge has an adjustment to it and I can make it harder to move the door but cannot loosen the binding parts. Anyone out there familiar enough with old safes to help me out a bit? Lockwork and locking lugs still work freely after all these years. Lockwork is a sargent and greenleaf.

babun

Try leveling or shimming one of the casters. I think your old safe has taken a "set" to it. You may have to "unlevel" it to make the door swing easier. Think like it was a door frame in a house that settled and now the perimeter of the opening is out of square.You may have a twist in the frame causing the hinges to bind. And lube the hinges too.

Hawkshaw

41 nut---I can't solve your door problem, but I'll share with you something I learned about old safes years ago. Check and see what is in the bottom of your safe. Most have almost nothing. The clever thief will turn your safe over, and beat in the bottom, and leave with your contents. In about 10 minutes. HAWKSHAW

41 nut

babun the safe sits perfectly level. I thought of it being unlevel this evening and check it. I'll have to try unleveling it the other way tomorrow. Never thought of that.


Hawkshaw there is 4" of concrete all the way around including the bottom of this one. By the looks outside and the way it was constructed it appears to have been a top of the line safe in its day.

MIKE WISKEY

just to note it is lined with 'refactory' (fire brick).

rsnyder55

From your description, it sounds like you figured it out. If it is binding in the top left corner, then it sounds like the door needs to be readjusted since it sounds like it is no longer square with the frame. You may want to measure the gap around the door (if possible) to see what the gap is all around the door to verify.

givette

Hinges need to be re-bushed. Very similar to the bushing/pin setup on an automobile door. Open the door, and notice if you can lift the door. If it moves (lifts), even slightly, Bingo!! Stanley has found Livingston!

Trick is to get the pins out, drilling and inserting new, or replacement bushings (I'd go the replacement pin route, also). Hardened bolts should do the trick.

Joe

US Military Guy

Another source I have found for replacement pins is drill bits.
They are available in any size by 1/64 of an inch and hardened steel.
All you need to do is "adjust" for length. The best method I have found for shortening a drill bit (other than breaking it while using it [:D] ) is to "cut" it with a grinder.

JudgeColt

I would not use anything a brittle as a drill bit for a replacement hinge pin. They break like glass. A high grade bolt would be fine. Unless the safe will be opened many times a day without lubrication, high grade bolts with proper lubrication will outlast all of us.

If some part of the hinges is "loose," then that must be the problem, since it did not exist before just recently. As tight as most safe doors fit (to keep out fire), a bit of looseness will be enough to causes binding. Fix the looseness and new hinge pins will probably not be needed. Or grind off the interference area of the door, which would be the simplest.

I have a very old safe (much bigger) in the back room of my office, and I am fascinated by the combination lock mechanism. It is quite a piece of machining and intricacy.

41 nut

Yes I've about decided the door hinge pins have worn enough to cause the binding. I'm going to have to grind a bit on the edge of the door to correct the problem. The door is apparently made to not come off as the way the hinges are manufactured one pin goes down while the other goes up making it impossible to lift off the door as I can on the other 3 old safes I have. There is an bolt in the bottom of the lower hinge that will adjust the height of the door. Using that I have been able to stop the door from binding quite as hard, but it is not enough. I'll play with it some more next week and hopefully get it fixed enough so I can use it. Gun show this weekend I need to get ready to set up at.


MIKE WISKEY the door at least is pure cement. Not sure if the sides, top, and bottom are the same or not.


JudgeColt yes the lockwork is very intricate and facinating. What surprised me is looking at the sargent and greenleaf website is that they still offer the same lock today. I'm just hoping I can get the combination set the same as it was before so I won't have to relearn it. Had to take the lockwork out in order to get the door apart and at the locking lugs.