Old Cartridge Headstamps

mrbruce

I was rooting around in the old shop and came across these old loaded cartridges.
I'll assume the one is a 44/40 for the old 92 Winchester, but no clue as to the other one.
It's a rimmed case, .311 diameter lead bullet, and a 2.302 long body....
Any ideas ?????

heavyiron

Hi,

It looks like a 30-40 Krag or .30 Government which is a synonym for the 30-40 Krag.

The Krag used a rimmed case that was 2.3 inches long. The rim diameter should be about 0.54 inches.

The FA 8 03 would mean the cartridge was made by Frankford Arsenal in August of 1903 which would be the correct time frame for the Krag. These cartridges were produced at Frankford Arsenal until 1907.

The first cartridge is a 44-40 made by Winchester Repeating Arms Company and is a high velocity load.

Hope this helps.

Heavyiron

heavyiron

quote:Originally posted by heavyiron
Hi,

It looks like a 30-40 Krag or .30 Government which is a synonym for the 30-40 Krag.

The Krag used a rimmed case that was 2.3 inches long. The rim diameter should be about 0.54 inches. This however, only identifies the case. With the lead bullet it could be a reload.

The FA 8 03 would mean the cartridge was made by Frankford Arsenal in August of 1903 which would be the correct time frame for the Krag. These cartridges were produced at Frankford Arsenal until 1907.

The first cartridge is a 44-40 made by Winchester Repeating Arms Company and is a high velocity load.

Hope this helps.

Heavyiron

SP45

Frankford Arsenel 8-03. That is correct for the 30 government or 30-40 Krag. It will have a silver colored round nose bullet wich weighs 220 grains.

Bert H.

The first cartridge is indeed a 44 W.C.F. (44-40), but it is not intended for just "any old Model 1892". It was specifically made for post-1905 manufactured Model 1892/92s, and late production Model 1885 Single-shot rifles. The "W.H.V." means "Winchester High Velocity" and was intended only for Model 1892s made with Nickel steel barrels, or those barrels marked for W.H.V. loads. I do not remember the exact year that Winchester introduced the W.H.V. load, but it was circa 1916.

heavyiron

Hi,

Bert is correct about the time frame for the high velocity cartridge. The following photo is from a 1917 REM UMC catalog:



To add to the confusion the 44-40 was named differently based on the manufacturer even though the dimensions of the cartridge were identical. For example, the 44-40 was known at least as the .44 C.L.M.R., .44 W.C.F." and .44-40 MAR. The Game Getters could also be added to this list.

To add to the confusion there was the standard load, the high velocity load and the high power load. Below is an example of the different loadings and their respective velocity for a .38-55-255.

.38-55-255 Standard muzzle velocity (M.V.)of 1321 feet per second (fps)
.38-55-255 W.H.V. with a M.V. of 1593 fps; and
.38-55-255 H.P. with a M.V. of 1700 fps

Hopes this helps to clarify this issue.

Heavyiron

mrbruce

Thanks for the info guys, I kinda thought the one was a 30-40 Krag from the looks of it but the head stamp was making me crazier than normal......