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22 Long Rifle vs. 17 HMR

bk0331bk0331 Member Posts: 525 ✭✭
edited January 2008 in Ask the Experts
My neighbor, a little old lady, wants a revolver for the house. I think that a .22 or a .17 would be all she could handle. Which caliber do you all think would be best?

Comments

  • ladamsladams Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are some lower priced 22 magnum revolvers out there. heritage makes one that shoots really well and functions nicely for around 100. At least with a 22 mag you could load it with JHP and have a little penetration. You could also get a .380 or .32ACP, they have very little recoil, and while not great penetrators are a little better than a .22. No matter what is chosen help her learn how to safely shoot it, and take her to practice some.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,668 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the .22 for this lady.
    It is easy for a woman to handle and it is a real man killer. In my experience it penetrates and kills better than the .25 or the .32.
  • mondmond Member Posts: 6,458
    edited November -1
  • 5mmgunguy5mmgunguy Member Posts: 3,092 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would recommend the revolver be at least a 22 Magnum. 22LR will kill but it don't stop well. I have a friend who works in a trauma center. Lots of people die after being shot with a 22LR but most of the time it is in the hospital and not right away and from infection they can't control. Had a case where a guy walked up shot the other guy 6 times in the back with a 22LR...the guy after being shot 6 times shot the guy who shot him...with a 9MM. Killed him on the spot. He died in the hospital 3 days later.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,668 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My experience is quite different.
    I worked as a Paramedic for over 13 years and I saw more people killed with the .22 than any other round, 95 percent of the time this was the .22 LR, I only saw a few .22 mag shootings.
    I saw many occasions where we got to the scene, ten minutes after the shooting, and they guy had a couple of those little .22 holes in his chest and he was already dead.
    The .22 has the strange ability to bounce around inside the body and not exit. Every time it zig zags it is liable to hit an artery, or the liver, or the heart.
    I also worked many .22 shootings where the guy was conscious and talking to us in the ambulance, but he died in the ER before he could get to surgery.
    As for dying of infection, I don't know about that, at my hospital they gave antibiotics to prevent that.
    As to stopping power of the .22, I can't say, I never saw the guy get shot, all I know is he was usually in bad shape when the ambulance arrived if he took a couple good hits with the little .22
    I came up with an axiom that held up pretty well. One shot to the torso with the .22, fifty percent chance of dying.
    Two shots to the torso with the .22, ninety five percent chance of dying.
    Most of us Paramedics owned several pistols, and we also hunted deer a lot. It was common for a Paramedic to bring a pistol or rifle into the quarters, and we would sit around and admire it at length, between calls. Our EMS worked a gunshot case several times a week. Us Paramedics knew a lot about guns. We held the little .22 in awe, for being such a tiny little "weak" round, but for being so lethal.

    By the way there was a posting over on General Discussion a while back where a South Carolina trooper got into a gunfight with a bad guy. The trooper shot the guy five times but the guy lived. The bad guy had a .22, he bounced a couple shots off the troopers vest, no harm, but he snuck one shot under the troopers arm, missed the vest and entered the chest. The trooper ran about 20 feet and collapsed, dead.
  • RobinRobin Member Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For starters there is a huge amount of bang and flash difference between the .22LR and .22 WMR and marginal difference balistically. With a .22 LR she would have a larger selection of choices in either semi auto or revolver. Semi auto selection in .22WMR are few and far between. The .17 HMR is just a .22 WMR necked down to a smaller pill and a great choice for a long gun used to knock down prairie dogs. For self defense I would stick to a .22 LR given the universe of choices. I am thinking a Model 34 S&W or similar other smaller frame .22 LR would fit the bill
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    Back in the 1980's there was a magazine called "Gun tests" that was published by an indpendent (no ties w/gun mfgers) bunch of guys from mostly military/police backgrounds. They would buy the (then) popular gun offerings, test and give HONEST evaluations of their findings.
    One issue had an article on the letality of all the handgun calibers. Surprizingly (to me at the time) they rated the .22LR very high. Giving pretty much the same expaination as Allen Griggs posted.
    W/one caviat. For Self Defense, solid nose bullets should be used as they achieve the best penetration. They said that hollow points begin to disintrigrate on impact. Especially on heavily muscled, or persons wearing heavy clothing. And possibly not aquire the penetration required to turn the perps vitals into "Swiss cheese".
  • flyingtorpedoflyingtorpedo Member Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go for a 22. Ammo is much cheaper to practice with so she can learn how to use it.
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 17,019 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen and Robin +1....Go for the 22....nambu
  • 5mmgunguy5mmgunguy Member Posts: 3,092 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen Griggs I talked to my friend in the trauma center again...sorry need to correct a couple of things they guy died not days later but hours...two they agreed the bullet bounces around inside...if they live infection is an issue, apparently the 22 lead bullet is very dirty and it leaves the dirt along the wound trail. They agree that the bullet will kill but don't feel that it takes the person shot out of the fight fast enough, the other person can do grave damage before surcoming to their wounds.
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 5mmgunguy
    Allen Griggs I talked to my friend in the trauma center again...sorry need to correct a couple of things they guy died not days later but hours...two they agreed the bullet bounces around inside...if they live infection is an issue, apparently the 22 lead bullet is very dirty and it leaves the dirt along the wound trail. They agree that the bullet will kill but don't feel that it takes the person shot out of the fight fast enough, the other person can do grave damage before surcoming to their wounds.

    I think everyone is in agreement that the .22LR is near the bottom in terms of knock-down power. But the purpose of the discussion is a handgun for an old lady.
    A hit w/a .22 is better than miss w/.44 . And while it might not knock down a drug crazed attacker, I think the average perp could be expected to consider a torso hit w/a .22LR a deterrent.
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