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Hi-Cap Mags
nofalcon29
Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
Is it illegal to ship Hi-Cap mags to cal. or just illegal for them to own them.
Comments
A CA resident can own greater than 10 round magazines if those magazines were possessed prior to 1 Jan 2001 (hope I have the year right). It is the responsibility of law enforcement to prove you did not own them prior to 2001 - it's not your responsibility to prove you owned them prior to 2001.
Some assert it is legal for a CA resident to possess greater than 10 round magazines even if they were manufactured post ban; that is, while CA law prohibits manufacture, importation, exposing for sale and a few other things by name - it does not specifically prohibit possession of a greater than 10 round capacity magazine.
The difference is this - if you order greater than 10 round capacity magazines from Company X and CA DOJ tracked the item, documenting your importation, you have violated CA law. If you're driving back from Vegas with a new + 10 capacity magazine and a dated receipt, that would violate the law. However, if you are later simply found in possession of + 10 round capacity magazines manufactured 2001 or later you have not violated the law because possession is not specifically prohibited.
Of course the "if sale, import, giving, etc is prohibited, then how the heck did you get it without breaking the law?" question comes up, I don't have an answer. Maybe someone else will provide. As with anything in CA involving guns & the law, it's confusing. But I've read the specific statute and it does not specifically prohibit possession.
All my +10 mags are pre - ban. All the +10 mags of everyone I know are pre - ban. Everyone's +10s are pre - ban.
After that date no high cap mags can be bought, sold, brought into calif, or change hands in calif. The hi cap mags already possessed are exempt from this law.
As you mentioned unless a mag is stamped with a manufacture date, the burden of proof is on the accuser (police) to prove a violation, just as with any other crime.
When I lived in CA I tried to order some from Cabelas and upon checkout it would not allow it due to laws etc. You can still buy hi cap magazines at gun shows if you can find a decent one and it is for a firearm made before the ban like say a M1 Carbine-if it's for a firearm made post ban only LE can buy them legally. It is the craziest law I ever came across--it is ok to buy and own the magazine in CA but you can't have it shipped to you from another state. Not to mention that it did not prevent you from going on vacation to another state, buying a hi cap and bringing it back(still illegal but people did it all the time)[:D]
Not so. You cannot buy hi cap magazines in Calif at all, not even for M-1 Carbines or Mini-14's that are still legal here.
Hi cap mags possessed before 1-1-2000 are still legal to own, but cannot be sold or transfered within Calif. They may be sold to someone OUT of state.
Doug, Your mostly right. The cut-off date for high capacity mags was Jan 1, 2000.
After that date no high cap mags can be bought, sold, brought into calif, or change hands in calif. The hi cap mags already possessed are exempt from this law.
As you mentioned unless a mag is stamped with a manufacture date, the burden of proof is on the accuser (police) to prove a violation, just as with any other crime.
Thanks for the correction, didn't have my book with me. I reread the law last night and there's nothing about possessing +10 made after 2001 magazines. Selling, importing, manufacturing, lending, giving or exposing for sale - all prohibited. But nothing prohibiting possession or acquiring. The statute is precise and I don't think it's an oversight. As written it focuses on the person making them available as having violated state law, not the person buying or in possession.
quote:Originally posted by ruger41
When I lived in CA I tried to order some from Cabelas and upon checkout it would not allow it due to laws etc. You can still buy hi cap magazines at gun shows if you can find a decent one and it is for a firearm made before the ban like say a M1 Carbine-if it's for a firearm made post ban only LE can buy them legally. It is the craziest law I ever came across--it is ok to buy and own the magazine in CA but you can't have it shipped to you from another state. Not to mention that it did not prevent you from going on vacation to another state, buying a hi cap and bringing it back(still illegal but people did it all the time)[:D]
Not so. You cannot buy hi cap magazines in Calif at all, not even for M-1 Carbines or Mini-14's that are still legal here.
Hi cap mags possessed before 1-1-2000 are still legal to own, but cannot be sold or transfered within Calif. They may be sold to someone OUT of state.
at a few of the gun shows I went to I saw hi cap mags at several vendors--now maybe these guys didn't care about the law or nobody was checking them. For instance at one gun show in Fresno, CA there was a man selling all kinds of things-and many of them still new in the packaging but you could tell were old--like Browning Hi Power 13 round mags. There were also people selling older rifles with more than 10 round mags in them. Maybe for a larger venue like for LA or SF the vendors would be checked closer. I do know the state of gun shows in CA is poor at best-I've been to ones in Southern and Northern CA and 50% of the stuff being sold there isn't even firearm related like toys and beef jerky.
You see all kinds of non-gun related stuff. Videos, dolls, jewelry, lots of knives, t-shirts.
If you have seen vendors at the shows selling +10 rd mags, they are violating the law. They simply cannot be sold and that includes hi caps for .22 rimfire and for guns that are not assault weapons, ie ruger mini-14's, M-1 carbines, M1A's etc.
The tubular mags on .22 rifles are exempt from the hi-cap law, but you generally dont see these for sale by themselves.
If you saw a guy at the Fresno show openly selling hi-cap mags, my guess is that he is a DOJ plant trying to sucker people into buying a mag and then arresting them for it. DOJ almost always has people working these shows.