.32-20 HV Revisited/History

breakerdan

Recently, there have been several forums regarding information
on the .32-20 WHV. I have long been a .32-20 enthusiast
and collect old .32-20 cartridges as well. Here is some information
that some may find interesting.


1946

Pre WWII

Remington HI-SPEED 1940s 32-20 looked the same

History:
According to Cartridge of the World, high velocity loads debuted between 1900-1910. The earliest example of 32-20 WHVs
I have seen date to the 1920s. There are 2 different high vel. loadings of the 32-20. One was the usual 80 grain "open expanding point" and a seldom seen 115 jacketed soft point. I have not seen 115 grain soft point from after WW2. The 80 grain load was made from the 1920s until the late 1960s. Remington marked them as "Hi Speed"
and Winchester marked them High Velocity or Super Speed.

Technical Data on old cartridges: test gun 1894 Marlin 22inch barrel
Pressure has been rumored to be in the 20,000 range.
Velocity: I chronographed an original 32-20 Winchester HV, from a 1946 Winchester box, fired out of the 22'' barrel Marlin 1894 at
2005 fps. In contrast, a 1950s vintage 100 grain standard pressure Western Lubaloy coated 32-20 chronographed at 1239fps. A modern Remington 100 grain lead flat nose went 1190 fps.

Headstampings:
Winchester 1940s vintage: Super-Speed 32-20WHV
Western 1960s vintage: Super-X 32-20WHV
BEWARE: many Remingtons are not headstamped as being WHV,
they are simply labeled as 32-20 WIN. The hollowpoint would
denote a WHV. The Remington box they came in will be marked
HI-SPEED. Those later boxes with high velocity on the top are
regular shells and many boxes indicate they are for use in
any 32-20 pistol.

HV rounds should not be used in 1873 Winchester rifles
of any vintage and should be kept out of pistols. Many disagree on the safety of their use in revolvers and were not advertised to be used in them. I know of one individual who messed up a Colt Police Positive by firing HVs in them. I have personally fired them from a
Single Action Army Colt and liked them. Do this at your own risk
but if you put them in any pistol you are asking for trouble- they are also VERY loud. Elmer Keith believed the SAA could take them by stating that the SAA was capable of 1500 fps. But we all know Elmer loosened up a few guns in his day. The moral of this story is basically keep them out of pistols and '73s. Really no need to ruin
good old guns. I wasn't worried about messing up my SAA because it is a new one and the quality and value is not to the level of the 1st gens.

I wish 32-20 HVs were still made, but they can easily be handloaded to equal the old cartridges. The 80 grain OPE (hollowpoint) is truly a fast expanding varmint bullet and those I have recovered showed dramatic expansion to over 2x the original diameter. I have tried a few on feral hogs of around 50 pounds and they went down fast. Expansion and penetration was good. Would they work on deer? Within range of 75 yards and deer of less than 125 pounds, I would definitely use it. The record whitetail several years back was taken with a 25-20 and we all know it is truly about shot placement.

The WHVs (loaded in 25-20,32-20,38-40, and 44-40) are now a footnote in firearms history. They filled the purpose of lengthening the range and improving trajectory and improving terminal performance.
There are certainly better rounds out there now, but in the end,
I will stick to the old stuff.

Fire back with any more 32-20 info.

agostino

I have a friend who swears by the .32-20 for wild turkeys. Says it just bowls them over. I use the round in an antique 1885 Winchester Low Wall when the raccoons decide stealing from my bird feeders isn't enough start wrecking them.

Bert H.

The original Winchester W.H.V. 32 W.C.F. cartridges were introduced sometime after 1910. They are only safe to shoot in the Model 1892s made at that time, or in any of the Model 1885 Single Shot Rifles.

Tflogger

Canadian 32-20 ammo was also loaded hot for rifles, I bought 4 boxes of CIL for my Colt Police Positive Special. Lucky for me my wife's grandfather knew better. I still have the Colt, thanks to Myron.
I'd much rather that Myron was still around!

v35

Remington Model 25 literarure advertized it will handle all high speed factory ammo.
Their literature also claimed it suitable for rabbits through wolves and deer.I knew someone who used a Marlin 32-20 and medium speed handloads with cast lead bullets for feral dogs
that plagued his farm. He was pleased with the results.
With today's selection of bullets and ballistics on the order of the 30 Carbine out of a good rifle or SAA revolver, it should be a good survival caliber.
Frank Barnes of COTW said his mod 25 in 32-20 would be the last gun he would part with.

varian

bought a brick of remingtons couple years ago. they say high velocity on the box. they 100gr jacketed. should i keep these out of my s&w 32-20 and colt army special?

breakerdan

Varian, unless your cartridges date to the pre 1960s (example would be the green and red "KLEENBORE" box or the one listed in the first auction below), you have standard velocity cartridges that would be fine in your guns if they are in good working order. To my understanding, the only post World War II high velocities (not for pistols) were 80 grain hollowpoints (labeled open expanding point by western and winchester) so unless you have some rare loading or reloads your ammo is standard pressure. Remington marked nearly all their ammo as High velocity. NOTE: The true high velocity (not for pistols) Remingtons loads were marked HI-SPEED versus high velocity on the box. The bullets for the HI-SPEED were generally labeled M.C.H.P (metal cased hollow point) by Remington.

This is an example of true Remington hi-speed (not for pistols) catridges with original box from the 1960s:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98956140

If your cartridges are similar to the Remington box on the right of this auction, you definitely have standard pressure ammo that is ok in your pistols. These are from the 1980s to 1990s:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98605707

Remington has always been somewhat confusing about the loads they make. Any of the green and yellow Remington boxes are marked high velocity but are acutally standard pressure. In fact, current Winchester 32-20s actually chronograph faster than Remingtons 32-20s.

Take this with a grain of salt, but it was rumored long ago that the Army Special could stand HV but that was the rumor. BUT don't do it!
Hope this helps you out.

Note also that Remington dates cartridge boxes on the inside *. The 2 numbers in the center of the circle denote when the box was made. The cartridges should date to the same timeframe.

varian

thanks for the info. boxes are green and yellow. its great to get good info such as this just to let you know there is a reloading outfit in cullman, al that reloads 32-20s from time to time. can't recall their name right now but the last i got from them were 80 gr h.p. don't really know how hot they are. i think its funny that we now have the 32 mag and the 327mag but i imagine the 32-20 will still outlive both

breakerdan

Very true. Thanks for the info. The 327 Mag is such a near duplicate to the 32-20 WHV, but I will admit it is a better case design.
I do agree that the 32-20 will outlive it.
Your green and yellow boxes should be just fine. Many of the green and yellow boxes had for use in all pistols written under the caliber callout on the end of the box. I have one box with that and one without. I have not chronographed the softpoints but the lead round nose from Remington go about 750 fps from a Colt Police Positive and a little faster from my Single Action. Out of a 22 inch barrel rifle they get about 1175.

v35

Current 32-20 loadings are a waste of time and money. They are the equal to 32 S&W longs and are underloaded for both rifle and pistol.
Phil Sharpe limits revolver loads to 15ooo psi with velocities of 1270 using the 32ACP bullet and 1080fps using the 115 gr lead bullet- no great shakes.
Out of a strong rifle, it's another story. Pressures can run up to 30,000 psi. Velocities can run up to 2200 fps with an 80 grain jacketed
bullet and 1760 fps with a 115 jacketed bullet. The 100 gr JSP can be pushed to over 1800 fps.
Barnes personally liked to load this round to about 1500 fps out of his Model 25 Remington.