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Request Bill Goforth's assistance please.

RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
edited May 2008 in Ask the Experts
I thought I would ask the experts as suggested here is my question.
I"m looking for the firearm or any info on it here are the details that I have . Single shot shotgun .has a nickel receiver ,looks a lot like some of the early Iver Johnson models..problem is there is not much info on the gun itself ..one side of the receiver has an Owl's Head Logo and on the other side of the receiver it said Wide Awake.has kinda a small forearm .. From research I found that Hood firearms used the wide awake trade name but it was used on pistols,cant find anything that was used on long guns . anyone ever hear of one of these shotguns ? Surely some of the experts here know what I"m talking about..Maybe it was made by Iver Johnson and patented under another trade name ? since they used the owls head logo? Many thanks
RayinVa
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Comments

  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would change the header on your topic, to request Bill Goforth's assistance. He has written a book on Iver Johnson firearms. If anybody could help you identify the shotgun if it has any association with Iver Johnson, it would be him.
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Done , thank you rufe-snow for the suggestion ... [:)]
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  • b.goforthb.goforth Member Posts: 982 ✭
    edited November -1
    iver johnson did not register the "owl head" trade mark until about 1890. its earliest use (that i know of ) was on the grips of a revolver manufactured for J.P. Lovell Co. called the SWIFT (1890-1894). i have not seen the owl's head stamped into the metal of any iver johnson firearm until recently 1980's, but that does not mean it didn't happen. before i can tell if this is a iver johnson (johnson & bye gunsmiths) product i would really need to see it. can you send some pictures of the markings and over all view of this shotgun?
    goforth2@peoplepc.com

    a short history of early iver johnson products might help. the company was started in 1871 as Johnson & Bye Gunsmiths. in about 1873 they signed an agreement with J.P. Lovell Co. of Boston to sell all thier products. J.P. Lovell Co. was a large wholesaler, retailer and mail order company. they were one of the first companies of this type that sold "Brand Name" firearms of all types. at one time J.P. Lovell Co. was a firearms manufacturer but by 1871 they were strickly a seller and distributor of all kinds of sporting goods. with the signing of the aggreement with J.P.Lovell Co. iver johnson (johnson & bye) became the number one supplier to J.P. Lovell Co. of name brand single barrel shotguns (champion) and single action spur trigger revolvers (defender and about 10 other brand names)and double action revolvers (american bulldog). this agreement lasted until iver johnson's death in 1895. shortly after that the iver johnson family purchased the J.P. Lovell Co. (about 1899) and it became the iver johnson sporting good co. of boston. all this means it is possible this is a iver johnson product that j.p. lovell co. supplied to some other company. i really would like to see pictures of this shotgun.
    bill
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  • captkirk3@dslextreme.comcaptkirk3@dslextreme.com Member Posts: 3,804
    edited November -1
    Down deep in My Data Base I show "WIDE AWAKE" as being made by Hood Fire Arms, Norwich, Conn., c.1875...Makers of Revolvers...Have nothing showing them as Makers of a Single Shot Shot gun...But its always possible they made both....
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unforuntaly I do not have a pic of this firearm at the moment . I had this gun in hand some years back I know it was around in the early 1980's and it was old then .. but I am sure of the owl being stamped on the receiver and the wide Awake being on it also .and Im sure it was not the damascus type barrel.. If I can locate a pic I will get it emailed to you .. Surely someone has seen this gun I would have thought .. it has an owl on the buttstock also.. but no mention of iver johnson it it anywhere ..I was just taking that it was made by them..also on the Hood firearm co .I think production had ended by the time this gun was produced .. Im thinking early 1900's 20'-40 in that range but thats only guessing ..any info that would help me to id this gun is greatly appreciated .. Im doing my best to get me one in hand ...thanks again
    Ray
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was also going to ask if anyone knew of any mfg that might have stamped that owl on the receiver of their guns in the very early 1900's? I may be looking in the wrong direction looking for the iver johnson as the mfg.
    thanks
    Ray
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  • b.goforthb.goforth Member Posts: 982 ✭
    edited November -1
    i would expect the owl's head on the butt plate as 99% of iver johnson's shotguns used an owl's head butt plate. after iver johnson registered the owl's head trade mark in 1890 they kept it current until the late 1970's so therefore no one else could leaglly use it. they also kept the name champion registrated until the same time.

    as stated the iver johnson owl's head trade mark is primarily seen on hard rubber grips and shotgun buttplates. one of the latter day iver johnson companies used a different type owl logo (3/4 torso) stamped into the reciever of some rifles imported from erma werkes of germany in the 1980's. just because i have not seen it doesn't mean it never was done.

    there is not much doubt in my mind this is an iver johnson single barrel but without pictures i can't put a date or even an era on it. to the best of my knowledge this is the first time the name "wide awake" has been seen marked on a single barrel shotgun.
    bill
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bill thank you very much for all the effort you have put forth on helping me determine the Id of this gun. I have been gathering all the information I can on this, and doing my home work with each clue Its good to know that Im not loosing my mind .I have found that at least one other person has seen this gun also..
    http://www.gabelguns.com/QuestionsAndAnswers/ViewQuestion.asp?QuestionNumber=1437
    I have not been able to make contact with the poster to see If i could gain a picture of this gun. only thing that does not make alot sense to me is that the gun that I had did not have the damascus barrel and if the statement from the poster is true being made in 1800's then that gun would have had that that post was made back in 2002 I know a lot of things could have changed since then . Im just hoping that maybe he or someone else may know the gun Im talking about. One just never knows. thanks Much Bill and anything at all you can think of please forward it on ..
    RayinVa.
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Did I mention that I am very much interested in purchasing this shotgun.anyone have any more ideas ? thanks [:)]
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  • RayinVaRayinVa Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bump
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