colt 1877 lightning

Spartacus

so, i picked one up, DOM 1907, 38spl. slapped 6 rounds in and went out back.
very good trigger for a double action revolver. i'm guessing 6-8 pounds, but a clean brake.
decide to shoot another set, flip open the loading gate and.............
WTH, no extractor!! i've looked at many of these guns, but never noticed.[B)]
the bigger frame thunderer's have an extractor, the SAA's in all calibers have an extractor, so what's up with this one.
i know the early lightnings were rushed into production in response to a webley that was being imported with DA (no extractor), but the colts were loosely based on the SAA and cost 3 times what the webley cost....
any ideas on why?
the lightning, thunderer and rain maker (.32cal) outsold the SAA's of the same era, with the lightning selling the most.
the only revolver, or other guns i've ever fired w/o an extractor were some stone age revolvers and O/U derringers
why would anyone want one for daily use?
thanks
tom

hrf

Is it like this one?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=224393045

If it's a Lightning, it's NOT .38 Special caliber, it's the earlier .38 Long Colt caliber.

And the Webley Bull Dog had a swivel ejector rod stored in the center pin.

sigarmsp226

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=510515&SearchTerms=giveaway

Tom - Are you here???....Mark...[:D]

v35

You're lucky to have a nice D.A. trigger pull.
Someone must have worked on it.
They were handier, half the weight and half the size of the SAA.
They concealed better and in 41 they had the reputation of effectiveness on men.
The Webley .450 was lower in power, heavier and bulkier.
Hardin and Wm Bonney among other outlaws carried them.
Cowboys probably preferred the heavy calibers as they had to deal with shooting cows and bad guys at longer distances.
The Remington overunder Derringer does have an extractor.

Hawk Carse

Most .38 Lightnings I have seen had ejector rods like SAA.
I do think they made more "sheriff's model" 1877s than 1873s, though. A more concealable gun, when that was starting to matter, and if you couldn't get your business done in six shots...
Not a gun to shoot a case of whiskey bottles off of fence posts with, reloading need not be convenient.

hrf

quote:Originally posted by v35
The Webley .450 was lower in power, heavier and bulkier.

You must be thinking of Webley's big 6-shot RIC holster model? Webley's little 5-shot British Bull Dog model weighed only 17.5 oz.

The 1884 E C Meacham catalog lists weight of the Lightning as 1 lb 7 oz, price $15.50 with "slide shell ejector" and $13.00 without. Price of a Belgian copy of Webley Bull Dog was $2.93. (By 1884, Webley had lost the US market to the Belgian clones)

txfeller

This is an old post, but I think it's worth mentioning that the old lightnings are strictly a black powder cartridge gun. Be my guess that the only thing that kept it from possibly destroying the cylinder with the 38 specials is the fact that you were running a .357 bullet through a .375 bore, and that let the case pressure blow past the bullet instead of building up behind it.

If you want to shoot it, Gad Custom Cartridges has the correct bullets available for a reasonable price.

jonlower

Texfeller is right, theses guns are not strong enough for the 38 special. If you want to shoot smokless, you could use the commercially available 38 short Colt, with the heeled bullet. It has a low pressure curve and is very accurate. I've used them in many antique lightnings in excellent condition with no ill effects. That said, get your gun checked out for flaws before shooting anything in them. Of course, blackpowder is the safest way to go. Also, 77's made after 1898 have a stepped chamber designed for the smaller diameter bullet, and you won't get a special to fit all the way. In these, use short Colts with the smaller bullet.

JP

v35

Early in the year 1900, Colt certified their revolvers for smokeless powder.
Being it's a 1907 gun I'm confident in assuming it's safe for standard loads.
My several 1877 Thunderers shoot standard smokeless loads to velocities equivalent to black powder originals. One is 1903, the other 1898.
The Thunderer is the exact same revolver as the Lightning except
it's bored out for the larger diameter 41 Long Colt. If thin walled 41 cal guns can take it, certainly thicker walled 38's can also.
The Webley I had was an unwieldly, stubby, heavy, 450 Colt.
It looked like the Bulldog but may have been an Irish Constabulary
revolver. I believe Bulldogs and their clones were made in calibers down to 32 and none were full power like the 38Long and 41 long Colts.
There's no comparison in handiness between any Webley and an 1877.
The 1877 having the nicest feel had smooth mother of pearl grips.
I'm sure ergonomics, size and weight for the power had a lot to do with sales as there was plenty of competition.
As to the 1877 being adequate for self defense: there are plenty of gun owners who think they're well armed with derringers and single action NAA revolvers.

hrf

quote:Originally posted by v35
The Webley I had was an unwieldly, stubby, heavy, 450 Colt.
It looked like the Bulldog but may have been an Irish Constabulary
revolver. I believe Bulldogs and their clones were made in calibers down to 32 and none were full power like the 38Long and 41 long Colts.
There's no comparison in handiness between any Webley and an 1877.

The Webley BBD and a Colt Thunderer with 2-1/2" barrel are very similar: The Webley has a better DA trigger pull but the Thunderer has 6 shots instead of five. The .450 and the .41 Long Colt are also similar, with the .41 having slightly higher velocity but the .450 more muzzle energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Bulldog_revolver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Adams