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1886 Winchester Information

fish-onfish-on Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
edited April 2011 in Ask the Experts
I have a 1886 Winchester in 38-56 caliber, serial number 40097, that sometime in it's history had the barrel turned from octagon to round except at the back of the barrel and at the front site. Is there still and value to a collector? Can anybody tell me why somebody would do this to a beautiful rifle?

Thanks

Tom

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Comments

  • rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe to reduce weight. All of us who have been into guns a lot of years have asked ourselvess that same question. In my case I look back at some things I did (gun-wise & otherwise) and recall "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
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  • martinphoto1martinphoto1 Member Posts: 56 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unfortunately, IMO this rifle now has '0' value to collectors! It appears that the magazine has been altered as well, double bummer.[:(]

    On the bright side It's an early vintage, the receiver looks pretty decent, and so do the stocks, a few hundred invested for a old original bbl. & mag. may bring it back to having a value of 2-3k. I'd get it lettered to make sure of it's original configuration.....OR, part it out for a few hundred.

    Marty
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  • fish-onfish-on Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by martinphoto1
    Unfortunately, IMO this rifle now has '0' value to collectors! It appears that the magazine has been altered as well, double bummer.[:(]

    On the bright side It's an early vintage, the receiver looks pretty decent, and so do the stocks, a few hundred invested for a old original bbl. & mag. may bring it back to having a value of 2-3k. I'd get it lettered to make sure of it's original configuration.....OR, part it out for a few hundred.

    Marty

    I thought perhaps it was a half magazine model I've seen photo's of. Where do you find replacement barrels?
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  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    fish-on,

    Welcome to the forums here on Gunbroker.com.

    quote:Can anybody tell me why somebody would do this to a beautiful rifle?



    Well, back in that day, a lot of people didn't have the $$ to spend on a regular version, let alone a deluxe, or extra light, dressed the way they wanted it from the custom shop. They were also more utilitarian, than collectors, or forcasters of the future. That being said, I am sure someone acquired this rifle for next to nothing, or barter, then most likely home modified it. Looks like the barrel was done in a straight taper, without the normal transistion from octagon to round. Also, the magazine has been shortened. There are not many, if any full octagon rifles out there with magazines shorter than the barrel.

    You have several options to use here. You do have a decent reciever to work with, so you could rebarrel it to a common caliber. You can use it as is...you can have it restored to its original glory. As it is now, it is a shooter...providing you can find ammunition. The collector value is gone...unfortunately.

    Best
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  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by martinphoto1
    Unfortunately, IMO this rifle now has '0' value to collectors! It appears that the magazine has been altered as well, double bummer.[:(]

    On the bright side It's an early vintage, the receiver looks pretty decent, and so do the stocks, a few hundred invested for a old original bbl. & mag. may bring it back to having a value of 2-3k. I'd get it lettered to make sure of it's original configuration.....OR, part it out for a few hundred.

    Marty


    With a replaced barrel, it would still be a shooter with shooter value.
    What's next?
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  • martinphoto1martinphoto1 Member Posts: 56 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I respectively disagree that a replaced bbl. it'd still remain just a shooter. There is currently a 38/56 octagon bbl. available on the auction side of this site, albeit a bit too much IMO, but,even @ total expense of $1k for a original bbl. & magazine the rifle can be brought up collector standards. I don't think OEM replacement, especially if it's the same as what left the factory, will have a big detriment on the rilfe.

    Marty
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  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by martinphoto1
    I respectively disagree that a replaced bbl. it'd still remain just a shooter. There is currently a 38/56 octagon bbl. available on the auction side of this site, albeit a bit too much IMO, but,even @ total expense of $1k for a original bbl. & magazine the rifle can be brought up collector standards. I don't think OEM replacement, especially if it's the same as what left the factory, will have a big detriment on the rilfe.

    Marty


    It can never be a collector, as it will NEVER BE ORIGINAL. There are many who can tell if work has been done. If it lacks the original equipment that it left the factory with, then to pass it off as original is FRAUD.

    EDIT 1

    Marty,

    If it is not replaced or repaired AT THE factory, it is not original. In some cases, this does not suffice to high end collectors. Even if a different proper aged barrel and magazine tube, that matched this rifle, were added to it at this point, I can gaurantee you that there are people on this forum that can tell if a barrel has been replaced.

    There have been a couple instances that a seller passed off a Colt 1911 to an auction house, that he had a complete refurb done by a very respectable refurbisher...one that is extremely well known. There were some tell tale signs, and some other research was done, that turned it up.

    Trust me...the odds are in favor of someone who is knowledgable catching it.

    Best

    EDIT 2

    fish-on,

    The current value would be dependant on if it is in good working order. Somewhere between $600.00-800.00 would be my guess, and probably optimistic in todays economy.

    The cost of restoration is dependant on who does the work, and what is done. To get this rifle to look like it did, new from the factory, but 100-125 years old, would be $2-3K.

    The value after restoration would depend on the buyer, but a true Winchester affictionado would not part with more than $1000.00-1500.00, if he knew the rifle was not all original.

    Best
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  • martinphoto1martinphoto1 Member Posts: 56 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    Well now you bring up an very interesting point, and, to start with, I am in no way advocating "FRAUD"!

    To what degree of OEM replaced parts constitute a firearm from being original? If a part is damaged and replaced with an original factory manufactured 'vintage' part, maintaining it's aged patina and not making any 'enhancements' thus restoring the rifle to the same configuration as it was when it left the factory equate to "it's still nothing more than a shooter"? The serial numbered part, in this case the receiver, is the only part specific to that rifle, all the other parts were randomly picked out a parts bin containing dozens of similiar parts and assembled in a sequence to make the final gun. A Winchester manufactured 38/56 octagon barrel of standard length being of the same vintage as that that was initially installed on this Winchester is no differant than any other of the thousands made in that year for other Model 1886's. IMO the rifle is not being altered to anything than what it was, unlike those that the Turnball shop puts out, those are mostly made up guns.

    Agreed, the gun's 'restoration' should be disclosed in any sales tranaction, but I beleive it would still be valued to 'collectors'.

    Your turn....
    Marty
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  • fish-onfish-on Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does anyone have any idea of the following?
    1. Current value if any
    2. Approximate cost to restore the rifle
    3. Potential value after restoration

    Thanks

    Tom
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  • fish-onfish-on Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone have a link to somebody that has these parts, barrel and magazine?

    Thanks
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  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fish-on
    Does anyone have any idea of the following?
    1. Current value if any
    2. Approximate cost to restore the rifle
    3. Potential value after restoration

    Thanks

    Tom


    Tom,

    1. Less than $750.
    2. Way too much for that rifle!
    3. Way less than you would have in it.

    WACA Historian & Life Member

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  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fish-on
    Anyone have a link to somebody that has these parts, barrel and magazine?

    Thanks


    Don't bother... it would be a waste of time and $$$$.

    WACA Historian & Life Member

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