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California legal M4
CPT4209B
Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
Can anyone let me know what the 'california legal' M4's are out there. I just saw one with a fixed magazine for sale in a gun shop. Didnt know the government allowed them again...in a modified version. LIKE 10- or 20 rounds is going to change anything if they think someone is actually going to use this illegally!! I just love the look, and want one although it wont be the real deal. Any help on some manufacturers names and or models. Thanks. I am sure they cost more than the real ones with the detchable mags...lol...oh well the price to pay for sunshine i guess.[B)]
Comments
The ones I have seen at shows were actually less money than their detachable mag relatives.
The govt didnt "allow" them. They are legal because they dont fall under the legal description of "assault weapon" since they dont accept a detachable magazine.
There are two categories of banned AWs - those banned specifically by name and those banned by configuration. The difference? Banned by name is simple - if it's on the banned by name list, you can't have it. If it's banned by configuration, you can have it depending on how it's set up. The Mini 14 is a great example.
The plain old Mini 14 is fine. But, putting it in a thumbhole stock or a folding stock with pistol grip (hence the configuration part)it is not legal. I have a Mini 14 - when I'm in state it stays in a conventional stock. Out of state, I put it in a factory folder with pistol grip. My DSA FAL has a fixed 10 round mag when in state, a plain old 20 or 30 round detachable mag when out of state
The very short answer is that when using a center fire semi auto with a banned feature (pistol grip, flash suppressor, folding stock) the magazine must be fixed in place (fixed in place does not mean permanant BTW). The definition of fixed in place means that the magazine requires a tool to be removed - and a bullet or some other simple object that can be quickly used is considered a tool.
Also, you can replace the conventional AR pistol grip with something called a Monstor Man Grip - this allows you to use detachable 20 or 30 round magazines.
This is of course a woefully inadequate review of CA law - please hit the CalGuns forum and you'll get much more info including links to CA DOJ. I'd suggest doing that before you spend $$$ on an AR that has a permanantly welded in place or closed mag well - quite a few folks have done that only to learn they had more options.
I'm certain you'll encounter shooters and gun store clerks that will pronounce this as all wrong and opine you'll end up in the slammer. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, unfortunately some simply respond by rote and don't learn the specific details, pro or con. Please simply learn all you can by reading the law.
Here's a link to CA DOJ.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
All of the Cal legal AR pattern guns have fixed 10 rd mags that are loaded from the top after opening the gun.
The ones I have seen at shows were actually less money than their detachable mag relatives.
The govt didnt "allow" them. They are legal because they dont fall under the legal description of "assault weapon" since they dont accept a detachable magazine.
While these rifles with closed magazine wells and internal 10 round magazines are legal in CA, you are incorrect in that these are the only AR platforms allowed in CA.
If an ar-15 type receiver is not listed and banned specifically by make and model (there are only a handful actually listed), then you can legally possess them in CA. The trick then is to build them in compliance with the law.
You have essentially two desirable options.
#1 Build the rifle with no restricted features (pistol grip, flash suppressor, telescoping stock, forward pistol grip, flare or grenade launcher). You can use something called a Monsterman Grip or a U15 stock in place of the standard A2 pistol grip for this route. By building in this fashion, the rifle is now equivalent as far as the law is concerned, to a Mini-14 or M1A. You can use a fully detachable magazine and if you owned 30 round magazines prior to 1-1-2000, you can use those as well. Remember, in this configuration, no evil features are allowed
#2 Build the rifle with a FIXED 10 round (or less magazine) using any number of fixing devices. By going this route, the rifle is no longer a semi-automatic, centerfire, DETACHABLE MAGAZINE rifle. Therefore, with a fixed magazine, you can add any "evil feature" that you want (pistol grip, flash suppressor, etc). The method of fixing the magazine can be by a full magazine lock which uses an allen nut in place of the standard magazine release OR something called a BULLET BUTTON. A bullet button retains a magazine in the rifle making it fixed. In order to remove the magazine, a tool must be used to remove it. The bullet button is aptly named in that the tool could even be a bullet tip (as allowed specifically by the law). This is legal because the definition of detachable magazine under the law is a magazine that can not be readily removed from the rifle without disassembly of the gun or the use of a tool.
Go to http://www.calguns.net
Emmett
Most of the receivers and parts you can use are not named or discribed in the California assult rifle ban. I have a book that gives the discription or name info and Colt is out, I could not find M4, if it is named there in the ban you cannot buy and be legal.
Emmett
It has to be named by make AND model together. There are MANY receivers available to Californians. Stag, Lauer, Double Star, just to name a few. There is only ONE model of colt lower receiver that is not named by make and model. But, as I said, there are tons of great receivers out there that you can use.
Also, there are no "PARTS" specifically listed by make and model as part of the assault weapon ban in CA meaning you can buy any upper receiver you want and any parts. But, depending on what features the upper has, you need to make sure to assemble it into a rifle legally.
quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
All of the Cal legal AR pattern guns have fixed 10 rd mags that are loaded from the top after opening the gun.
The ones I have seen at shows were actually less money than their detachable mag relatives.
The govt didnt "allow" them. They are legal because they dont fall under the legal description of "assault weapon" since they dont accept a detachable magazine.
While these rifles with closed magazine wells and internal 10 round magazines are legal in CA, you are incorrect in that these are the only AR platforms allowed in CA.
If an ar-15 type receiver is not listed and banned specifically by make and model (there are only a handful actually listed), then you can legally possess them in CA. The trick then is to build them in compliance with the law.
Missy...... My response to CPT4209B was in ref to guns with fixed mags, since that was what he was asking about.
Iam aware that there are other ways to build guns without the offending features, but he was not looking to build one, but BUY one already manufactured.
Talk to your local dealer. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
If you are going to talk to your local dealer, be prepared to get a lot of different answers. The CA DOJ purposely makes this issue kind of murky in order to discourage sales. If you want a pretty good explanation of what is going on, please see my FAQ on my website.
http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=page_8
I have been selling CA legal AR15s (real AR15 lowers and not of questionable quality like the Vulcan. Stags, CMMGs, Spike's Tactical, and Centermass TS) for over two years now and most people would consider me an expert on this subject.
You can also learn more at www.calguns.net.
E-mail me with your questions. guns@tenpercentfirearms.com
Well either way, I guess what I should have asked was, to be more accurate, which companies make an M4 type rifle in a "CA LEGAL" configuration, that is worth a crap? I do like the thought of making it Ca. Legal and getting a better type of setup perhaps. I am not probably capable myself or maybe I am, but for what I would pay to do this, I wonder what the payoff in doing so would be in regards to an already complete setup? I AM really bummed about the 10round which I already knew, but I GUESS I just dont really like hand loading a mag after 10 rounds when I set out to target shoot several hundred rounds for the day!! Oh well.
Who would you guys recommend for a company to by from? I liked my old bushmasters we had, but they went away during the original ban, just so as not to lose it to the government, which coincidentally never would have happened....bummer! Do they make one for California?
Either way, thank you all very much for your input, I will check out that site.