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Armalite AR180
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Member Posts: 12,627
I was reading an article on the armalite ar180
they said it was the best ar you can buy.
whats your opinons on this rifle?
they said it was the best ar you can buy.
whats your opinons on this rifle?
Comments
First and foremost you have to have a military rifle that is pretty much "Soldier Proof", if you want to sell it to the army. The AR180 wouldn't have lasted a week in a combat situation. It would have turned into a scandal, if we had armed our troops with it, i.e. half of them would have been running around with rifles, that didn't have stocks. My 2?.
By the time AR18's were available for testing, the Department of Defense was committed to the AR/XM15 and little interest was shown in aquiring a new weapon platform. Neither McNamara, nor Springfield Armory wanted to be told they placed their bet on a loser. Millions of dollars were thrown at the problem until the Band-Aids worked.
The weak hinge of the stock is of little consequence as a stronger hinge is easily retrofitted if need be.
If you decide to get one, the Howa made weapons are the best, followed by Armalite Costa Mesa, with Sterling in last place.
It has a better gas operating system than does the AR-15/M16. It poops the gas used to cycle the bolt away from the bolt area via a gas/piston system.
The direct impingement of the AR-15 means that ANY unburned carbons get deposited in the bolt carriage area. And since the specs were so tight there is no where for it to go out. It builds up until it jams. However, accuracy is NOT what the AR-15 can do. Nowhere even close.
The direct impingement of the AR-15 means that ANY unburned carbons get deposited in the bolt carriage area. And since the specs were so tight there is no where for it to go out.So where do you suppose all those several tens of thousand pounds of pressure per square inch go?
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
The direct impingement of the AR-15 means that ANY unburned carbons get deposited in the bolt carriage area. And since the specs were so tight there is no where for it to go out.So where do you suppose all those several tens of thousand pounds of pressure per square inch go?
In most rifles, there is a hole at the end opposite the bolt.
Brad Steele
That was funny[:D]
Txs,
The majority of the pressure does just what Don said it does... it goes out that hole opposite the bolt. The gas that gets used to cycle the weapon is about 1/8th of the final pressure at the end of the barrel which is about 1/3 of peak pressure. That gas has a lot of carbon in it. Even in cleaner burning powders there is still a lot of carbon in it. As that gas directly blows back into the bolt carrier it leaves the carbon in the bolt/bolt carrier/receiver area while the remaining pressure vents out the ejection port.
Note how the ejection port area works like an inertial separator. Heavier matter wants to continue on in a straight path...like into the back of the receiver. The gas escapes out the {edit}ejection port, leaving most of the carbon it carried in the receiver and on/in the bolt/bolt carrier.
If you don't believe me...why don't you come clean my AR when I get done shooting it. Filthy pig after only a couple hundred rounds.
EDIT:
Txs,
I'm assuming Don was referring to what I was referring to and that is most of the pressure goes down the barrel and out the muzzle. Therefore my description of the amount of gas that returns and actuates the bolt carrier group of the rifle.
FWIW, the only change regarding jamming, since I was in, was using cleaner powders. There were no technical changes from the M16A1 that I carried and the standard issue A2 or the M4's of todays spec ops dudes. In fact the carbon issue is worse with the M4's as they have a shorter barrel and less time for the powder to completely burn. I am aware of all the places where carbon builds up in an AR. As mentioned I spent four years packing one. I was in the 1st RGR BN '81-'85 and we did a lot of firing. Day after day of live fires when we deployed. Granted the ammo we used was M193 ball and M196 tracer which is dirtier than today's M855 and M856 but still, if it worked the way you described I never would have had a malfuntion in the many thousands of rounds I fired. I had a number of malfunctions due to carbon build up.
At some point you know you need to sacrifice some accuracy to maintain the reliability that is 'wished for' in a military rifle. But I'm finding it hard to believe that people are coming back even today and saying the M16 platform doesn't jam due to the crap it spewed in it's own guts.
All that said it is the most accurate battle rifle I have ever shot. That includes my K-31. The AR180 as noted lacked a lot of the accuracy that the M16/variants have. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have been more accurate if they had the development that the M16 platform has had.
I'd like to see your AR if it's bolt carrier is vented through the muzzle.[:D]
sandwarrior-
These deposits on the bolt body and tail can actually only build to a certain thickness due to the high temps and extreme pressures. Those carbon deposits you speak of after just a couple of hundred rounds is as bad as it will possibly get.
Experiment with this and you'll see. Give the bolt and carrier just a cursory cleaning without actually working at scrubbing or scraping any of the heavy carbon deposits, then lube. In other words, simply wipe down with a patch of CLP and then squirt a coat of it on the parts before reassembly. The bolt body and tail will be ugly, but you'll find that these deposits never actually reach the point that they interfere with the functioning of the rifle. They won't continue to grow, but maintain a certain thickness with any excess being blown away by the high temp/high pressure gasses.
Note that no carbon deposits develop on the gas rings or their bearing surface inside the carrier. This is where it counts. Even that ring of carbon that develops up inside the bolt carrier won't reach the point of interference. It's fully developed after those couple of hundred rounds and cannot grow larger due to the extreme high pressure gasses. In fact it's best to leave it alone during cleaning rather than risk damaging the carrier by scraping.
A lack of lubrication within these tight tolerance areas due to it's degradation by high temp/pressure gas is the greater problem.
BTW-Not sure what you're referring to, but I've never seen a functionl issue due to heavy carbon buildup in the rear of the receiver.