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HAMILTON MARKED "MODEL 027"?

Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
edited April 2010 in Ask the Experts
A couple of years ago I obtained a very nice Hamilton marked as a MODEL 027, not the usual NO.27 stamping. Jim at the Hamilton website had no info on this variation although he knew of it. I phoned an elderly former Hamilton employee who also knew of a gun stamped with this MODEL designation, but he had no info on how, why, who, etc..

Today I got word I've won a second such variation. This one is very rough needing a lot of TLC, BUT, someone else evidently knew of these rarities because they forced the bid over $100 for a gun anyone else would have MAYBE gone no more than $20 to $30 as a parts gun!!!

HAMILTON027ODDBALLMARKS002_edited.jpg

This is a photo of my earlier rifle with the TWO sets of stampings on the left side of the receiver, AND what apears to be perhaps an "inspector's initials" just in front of the takedown bolt. The commonly found rifle has only the SINGLE upper stamp and it, and, like all other Hamilton rifles, is stamped NO. rather than MODEL. The common 027 is stamped NO.027 - NOT "MODEL." That NO.027 designation is INCLUDED in the upper stamping. There is NO lower stamping.

Does anyone out there have any kind of documentation as to why these few guns were stamped MODEL? Or, does anyone else out there own one of these stamped MODEL 027? I would apreciate info on either.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45

You know, I spent a fortune on deodorants before I realized that people don't like me anyway.
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Comments

  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,702 ******
    edited November -1
    This man seems to be an expert on Hamilton rifles: Hamiltonrifle@comcast.net

    His name is Jim and his website is http://home.comcast.net/~jimringbauer/HamiltonRiflesindex.html
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, Spider7115, but Jim is the guy I mentioned who has the Hamilton website. He says he's seen one but has no further info on it. And, he's the one who led me to the elderly former Hamilton employee.

    Looks like I'm gonna' have to find someone with a REALLY OLD gun reference book, catalog, or whatever, where this exact gun is discussed.

    So far, everyone I've asked about these particular guns has NO CLUE. But, for example, remember that NO other Hamilton is stamped MODEL.. they're all stamped NO.

    WHY JUST THESE FEW?

    If Jim and the former Hamilton employee each saw a different gun stamped like this, that's TWO, and I'll now have TWO. That's only 4 reported out of an estimated half-a-million produced! (?)

    Whachfigger' that makes these little guys worth today?

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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  • elubsmeelubsme Member Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have my Dad's 27. He "won" it selling salve in about 1921. The barrel liner is shot out now so we can't shoot it anymore. I also have my uncles Stevens 14 1/2. Eddie
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the input, JohnnyBGood, but that info doesn't address THIS particular stamping. I have a copy of Perkins' book and it's kind of my "bible" when it comes to a "WANT LIST" of some specimens I don't yet have.

    By the way, the title of Jim's book indicates it's concerned only with American rifles which is misleading. I only collect the .22rf single-shots made in US or Canada. Jim included at least one European-made with NO American ties, AND one Japanese-made which tied directly to the Hamilton line (a clone of the 027, AND one German-made which was a clone of the Hoban Mdl. 45 distributed by United Arms of Chicago in 1953. (I've got one of United's guns and copies of their ads in American Rifleman. Still hoping to find the Japanese 027 clone.)

    The "Jim at a Hamilton website" I referred to above is also in Spider7115's posting just below that. It includes Jim's email address and his website's URL. And, if you look at Jim's Hamilton website, right at the top he thanks the elderly former Hamilton employee for furnishing him with pictures.

    Lots of info out there, but unfortunately NOTHING about this MODEL vs NO. stampings - that I have found.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,702 ******
    edited November -1
    I don't believe it's the differences he's asking about but the unusual stampings.
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    By the way, JohnnyBGood, your scans of Perkins' book brings up an interesting point. Although NONE of the Hamilton rifles were ever designated by MODEL, but instead by NO., do you notice that Perkins constantly refers to ALL of them as MODEL such-and-such. I've never figured out why that anomaly...

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My error, JohnnyBGood, yours are Grant's, not Perkins' info. However, my comment would pertain to BOTH authors regarding the guns being called MODEL in their text. WHY Clarence Hamilton wanted them all designated NO. instead, has never been addressed.

    As Spider7115 pointed out, the difference between the 27 and 027 was not the isssue with these guns. And, regardless of the reason for these few with odd markings, it DOES make them of more interest to serious collectors.

    You mention changes in stampings on Colt and Winchester products and seem to dismiss this as "no big deal." I think it would be interesting to hear a response on that opinion from a Colt or Winchester collector.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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  • JohnnyBGoodJohnnyBGood Member Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Shansei45
    My error, JohnnyBGood, yours are Grant's, not Perkins' info. However, my comment would pertain to BOTH authors regarding the guns being called MODEL in their text. WHY Clarence Hamilton wanted them all designated NO. instead, has never been addressed.

    As Spider7115 pointed out, the difference between the 27 and 027 was not the isssue with these guns. And, regardless of the reason for these few with odd markings, it DOES make them of more interest to serious collectors.

    You mention changes in stampings on Colt and Winchester products and seem to dismiss this as "no big deal." I think it would be interesting to hear a response on that opinion from a Colt or Winchester collector.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45


    Sorry, I didn't mean to offer an insult with the "big deal" comment. A better choice of words on my part would have been that such variances in markings are "common." Therefore, it's not unusual or such a "big deal" to see a variation in frame markings. I din't mean that some collectors don't make a "big deal" out of such variations [:)]

    I will delete my two prior posts to allow responses from others before the 10 post maximum.

    John
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  • sirriesirrie Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi,

    I just got a hamilton model 027 at a garage sale. it has the exact same markings as the one on the picture above. It is in fair shape but the stock is cracked and the trigger mechanism does not want to fire.


    I do not collect this type of gun but thought it was an interesting piece.

    Thanks.
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  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,702 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sirrie
    Hi,

    I just got a hamilton model 027 at a garage sale. it has the exact same markings as the one on the picture above. It is in fair shape but the stock is cracked and the trigger mechanism does not want to fire.

    Any one interested to buy it?
    I do not collect this type of gun but thought it was an interesting piece.

    Thanks.


    List it on the aucton side with no reserve. Offers to sell in the forums are forbidden.
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi sirrie, that's a great find! There was a guy offering one on GB auction side not long ago and it sold for $150. Here's the URL to check it out:

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158668123

    This stamping is not widely known among collectors as yet. Yours is only the FIFTH one reported. Actually there are FIVE variations of the 027 if you include the THREE that were MADE IN JAPAN and called the Hamilton 027!

    I've got an article coming out in the new 2011 Gun Digest regarding another old gun, so I'm gonna' check with their Editor and see if they'd like an article about these guns in their 2012 Edition. The 2011 Edition should be on the newsstands this June or July.


    Thanks for info.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spider, I was typing my response and did not see your comment until I was done and back on my inbox. Feel free to edit out my comments at bottom.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45


    I enjoy you and your very interesting firearms but that is one rule which is unbending.
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