In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
question about M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS
phey_05
Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
quote:
quote:Originally posted by armilite1015
Owning the 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS in itself constitutes owning a machine gun without having the rest of the rifle.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
Actually you can freely own any or all of those parts. The trouble comes if you own those parts and an AR-15 type semi automatic rifle. If you don't own an AR then you can have a mountain of M16 parts and no one will so much as raise an eye brow.
Hi,
Im new with ar15/M16, can anyone confirm that the statement above is true? is there a law in a certain state that prohibits owning a 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS?
BR,
phey
quote:Originally posted by armilite1015
Owning the 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS in itself constitutes owning a machine gun without having the rest of the rifle.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
Actually you can freely own any or all of those parts. The trouble comes if you own those parts and an AR-15 type semi automatic rifle. If you don't own an AR then you can have a mountain of M16 parts and no one will so much as raise an eye brow.
Hi,
Im new with ar15/M16, can anyone confirm that the statement above is true? is there a law in a certain state that prohibits owning a 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS?
BR,
phey
Comments
[img
If you have any of the M16 parts installed in an AR-15 type rifle you are in deep doo-doo. Washington State has it's own set of rules about the possession of machine gun parts and it differs from the feds.
Bottom line: If you have any M16 parts and an AR type rifle you are looking for trouble.
As has been stated, having a semi-auto that does not have NFA papers for fully auto parts, and also possesing full auto parts, in the eyes of most law enforcement, and jury's, establishes INTENT. That is all the federal prosecutor needs to do, is establish intent.
Best
EDIT 1
MC, I think this should be moved to the GD forum, or lock it. It is obviously going to rage on, as the OP does not get it.
To the original poster...
If you have ANY machine gun parts, and fire control group parts for an M-16 do fit that definition, in WASHINGTON state, if you own an AR-15 or not, you can go to jail, and be prosecuted under WASHINGTON STATE LAW.
Sorry, the question was not clear.
Here you go:
You are not violating any law if you have 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS in your possession and you DONT own any ar15 rifle right? Even though you are in Washington states?
But the question on this statement is; why you have 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTSin your possession and you don't have ar15/m16 rifle? They you might be are in trouble?
No intention what so ever.
Thanks.
Sadly, after $40-70K spent in mounting a successful criminal defense in the Fedrule Kangaroo Kort, isn't it easier to follow the Imperious ATF's Unconstitutional edicts?
The ATF has lost this bogus "constructive possession" argument, every time someone has fought them on it.
Sadly, after $40-70K spent in mounting a successful criminal defense in the Fedrule Kangaroo Kort, isn't it easier to follow the Imperious ATF's Unconstitutional edicts?
The feds have plenty of money, plenty of attorneys and nothing but time. Thompson Center showed that the "Just because you have it you must be up to no good" presumption can be beaten, but how many folks have the kind of money it takes to do it?
If you have an AR-15 rifle then steer well clear of any M16 parts.A BATFE rule change involving bolt carriers came down a few years ago.
They've now decided M16 carriers are okay in semiauto AR's.
As an example, M16 bolt carriers are currently a factory item in Colt semiautos.
^ Thank you for the quick response.
Sorry, the question was not clear.
Here you go:
You are not violating any law if you have 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTS in your possession and you DONT own any ar15 rifle right? Even though you are in Washington states?
But the question on this statement is; why you have 5 M-16 TRIGGER GROUP PARTSin your possession and you don't have ar15/m16 rifle? They you might be are in trouble?
First off Washington is only A state, not states.
Yes ANY part that can ONLY be used in a SBR/SBS/MG is 100% illegal in WA. So the parts you list, even if you owned NO guns, would be illegal to possess in WA.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.220
RCW 9.41.220
Unlawful firearms and parts contraband.
All machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.
[1994 sp.s. c 7 ? 421; 1933 c 64 ? 4; RRS ? 2518-4.]
Now there is a slight exemption to this rule and it is the handful of SBR/SBS/MG's that were properly registered and owned in WA in the short window they were legal here.
If you want to know anything about WA gun laws here you go,
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41
That basically means that if you possess or control the parts necessary to construct an illegal weapon legally speaking its the same as if you possess the actual illegal weapon.
Its basically just a way of making sure that you can't (for example) store your illegal machine gun disassembled, then claim that its just a pile of parts, instead of a gun!
Note that this is a different thing than "intent".
Also note that I *strongly doubt* that the BATFE has lost every "constructive possession" case that has ever been contested in court. I suspect a lexis-nexis search would show that there have been federal convictions on these grounds. Here is a specific example where a federal CONVICTION for "constructive possession" of a machine gun was AFFIRMED on appeal:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1144693.html
This is a little different, since the machine gun in question was assembled, but don't doubt that "constructive possession" is a valid legal concept. . .it is.
On the Thompson-Center guns, that's a bit different than M16 full auto parts. You can make a case, for example, that you have a legitimate legal use for a set of parts that can be converted into a legal pistol or legal rifle, even though its "possible" to assemble the parts into an illegal weapon.
However, you CANNOT make a case that you "innocently" own a bunch of unregistered full auto M16 fire control parts, because there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to assemble them into a legal weapon! If you own those and enough other parts to complete the machine gun, and you're caught with them, you're hosed.
Last thing, in some jurisdictions (and apparently the State of WA is one of them. . .I think MA is too) having ANY full-auto type PART is the same as having an entire machine gun.