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ERMA 68A .380 acp test/reliability/ammo choice
marinebadger
Member Posts: 115 ✭✭
Hello all,
I've just won an Erma 68A "baby Luger" in .380 acp. I talked to the people at the gun range about having their 'smith look at it. They said that becaus of liability they don't really do those kinds of inspections anymore.
So, I will not hold anybody responsible, but I would like some unofficial opinions.
I have field stripped the pistol. Everything looks like good metal, i.e. no cracks or fatigue that I can see. (I'm no gunsmith) It all seems to be nice and tight and well lubed. It functions fine with a dry fire and the safety seems to work as well.
I was planning on finding the softest shooting ammo I could to go try her out. Any thoughts on whether or not this is a good idea? Also, of the readily available ammo, what seems to be the lowest pressure?
Thanks for the input,
Walter
I've just won an Erma 68A "baby Luger" in .380 acp. I talked to the people at the gun range about having their 'smith look at it. They said that becaus of liability they don't really do those kinds of inspections anymore.
So, I will not hold anybody responsible, but I would like some unofficial opinions.
I have field stripped the pistol. Everything looks like good metal, i.e. no cracks or fatigue that I can see. (I'm no gunsmith) It all seems to be nice and tight and well lubed. It functions fine with a dry fire and the safety seems to work as well.
I was planning on finding the softest shooting ammo I could to go try her out. Any thoughts on whether or not this is a good idea? Also, of the readily available ammo, what seems to be the lowest pressure?
Thanks for the input,
Walter
Comments
I had one of these a number of years ago, mine was stolen back in 2003. IIRC, it was very sturdy and well made with respect to fit and finish. With the "toggle" action you need to use ammo with enough umph to work the action - keep it well lubed. It handled any of the .380 ACP ammo I fed to it. It was reasonably accurate, although it had a tendency to shoot high and left. I believe that all of the modern U.S. factory loaded FMJ ammo will have pretty much the same velocities and therefore the chamber pressures will be pretty much the same. Fiocchi seems to be loaded a bit hotter and some of the Sellier & Bellot ammo is also hotter - both made under Eurpean standards. Self Defense loads do show quite a bit of difference in velocities, when comparing same weight projectiles. Enjoy.
It would have been best, IMHO if you had obtained a 3 day inspection/trial period from the seller you got it off the auction from.
EDIT #1, Regarding the question about the U.S. made, stainless steel Luger replica. It was made by the Aimco Co. of Houston TX, during the 90's. First sold by Mitchell Arms, then by Stoeger, under the Luger name that they owned since the 20's. Although a neat idea at the time the stainless Lugers weren't successful. I believe production was terminated in the late 90's.
I own and have recently shot these in both .32 and .380 ACP. Here is what I know from experience:
1. They look cool, like the all-time greatest classic P'08 (Luger)that they're styled after. One of mine has nice walnut grips and the other one has the more common plastic grips.
2. The metallurgy in these ERMAs is a cheaper die cast alloy (a/k/a "pot metal"), as noted earlier, except for the barrel liner, pins, and magazine body and grip screws. In no way is it comparable to the all-steel P'08s. I believe the finish is basically black paint.
3. To minimize the possibility of jamming, you should make everything just as perfect as you can -- that is,
a) make sure the gun is completely clean inside and out,
b) lube (oil) the toggle pins and slide grooves,
c) use absolutely clean, standard commercial ammo (FMJ feeds best) -- no hot loads, and
d) ensure the magazine feeds perfectly (including no damage to lips).
4. There can be a danger with this pistol of firing the cartridge before it is fully chambered (a misfire) if a round does not feed properly and jams. It's also advisable to learn how to clear a jam safely, keeping the pistol pointed downrange while you hold the toggle back (up), drop the magazine, and clear the chamber (requires some dexterity!).
5. One such misfire (in 4. above) happened to me, and caused the toggle link to break. It cracked apart across the pivot pin ears due to the weak (IOW junk) alloy.
6. Long before the KGP 68a's I had a similar ERMA in .22LR, model ET-22. This is a copy of the Luger Navy model, with a 12" barrel and wood fore-end. I put many hundreds of rounds through it but it was prone to jamming and it did misfire once also while I was clearing a jam. The 4" barrel .22LR version is the KGP 69. All these models (.22, .32, .380) have the same cheap alloy metallurgy. Naturally, the .22LR round will not stress the action (toggle linkage) nearly as much as the center-fire calibers.
7. Do not expect a KGP 68a to hold up well if you plan to put many hundreds+ of rounds through it, compared to an all-steel gun.
SO -- if you shoot it a little and it works OK, great. IMHO, these guns are "more form than function". Better to put it in the night stand for emergency use if you trust it, or display it for show. Like the Luger, they do look cool and they make an interesting collectible.
Good Luck!
Not to hijack the link, but I have a question reguarding the lugers. Back a few years ago there was a manufacturer who made clone copy's in stainless steel. Who were they, and are they decent copys?
Excellent advise daybreak///
Stoeger and Mitchell made copies of the 9mm Luger
Check your 68A with a magnet. The one I had was a nicely polished, blued finish ALL STEEL .380ACP. I've seen, sold and handled a few of the Zinc die cast .22s and I agree those were/are not very sturdy and with a black painted finish.
Anyone carry parts for the erma 380.I have a steel one missing the extractor and spring.tks hedge
You might try Bob's Gun Shop in Royal AR. When I was working on those potmetal Erma .22 Lugers he was the only source of parts I could find. Bob only sells from his on line site so you will have to access him that way through e-mail, almost impossible to get him on the phone.
I was wrong about certain parts of the KGP 68a being pot metal, as 32 Magnum's magnet test proved. All parts in the upper assembly are steel(barrel & extension, toggle linkage, etc.), as well as parts in the frame (trigger group, etc.). However, on my pistols, the frame itself is a non-magnetic cast alloyso the rails would probably tend to wear and loosen up faster than steel. On one of mine, the paint is worn off the front strap.
The Luger design, like some other classic firearms such as the Thompson 1928 and the BAR 1918A1, is "old school" in that it is difficult to machine due to curves & contours -- which also makes it so artistically famous and recognizable. I think originally the German factories had machine tools especially made for Luger production. So a die cast reproduction frame is much easier & cheaper to reproduce.
Boy, I barely remember a stainless P'08 version (even though we used to avoid schoolwork but spend hours and hours pouring over every page in The Shotgun News 20-30 years ago, before internet). But I did pull out my old Interarms (importer in Alexandria, VA) catalog dated 1983 which offered two rare Mauser P'08 models which they say were the last of the Mauser production with "less than 100 of each piece" being marketed in the U.S. One is the model 1902 Mauser Parabellum Cartridge Counter (has long slot cut into the left grip and magazine so you can actually see how many cartridges you've got). Other is Mauser Parabellum Karabiner (very long barrel, wood fore end and detachable shoulder stock). They are museum quality pieces from Mauser and catalog says to write for prices, so no doubt these were thousands of dollars back then. However I do recall that a more standard new production model was available in the '70s (and '80s?) through Interarms I think, at an affordable price.
Some 68a parts are pretty rare or pricey, especially ones a person might need like a firing pin or extractor and the tiny little spring for it.
btw--My first gun was a nicely refinished Luger with new walnut grips which I bought for $65 and received directly from UPS (along with 128 rds. of 9mm) at age 16, just before the wonderful Gun Control Act of 1968 put an end to mail order gun sales direct to individuals. Of course at that age, the first thing I did was load 'er up, run down into the basement and shoot it through the basement stairs (learning that military surplus 9mm FMJ penetrates 2x12's easily).
Sorry for the misinformation about the 68a metallurgy. I guess I was just disgusted that that toggle cracked on me, steel or not! Like they say, the mind goes first...
Happy Shooting!