Identify this 1911 *lots of pics*

hivoltg

When my grandfather passed away, we found this pistol in one of his safes and nobody in the family knows anything about it. It has no markings on it beside what appears to be a serial number on the frame. The bluing is perfect as well as the machine work. It is chambered in 38 Super and I have shot it a few times. It is a terrific shooter and is very accurate. I guess I need to find out if I should shoot it and "use" it or if it is something that I should not be shooting to preserve it's value.
I've been told everything from "it's a cheap gun. Go shoot it and have fun" to "It is some sort of prototype and don't shoot it because it will ruin the value"

Someone please help

Can anyone offer me any facts about this gun or any suggestions as to its value? Thanks



















Thanks for the help

dheffley

It looks like a parts gun that has been resurfaced on a surface grinder. Looks like a Remington Rand slide. I would say $300 to $400 from what I can see.

nmyers

The frame appears to be a USGI 1911A1 frame with altered serial number. While it's not likely that anyone will make an issue of this, you don't want to go out of your way to publicize it. Possession of a gun with an altered serial number is theoretically a felony, good for 5 years in a federal facility.

Neal

perry shooter

I agree with first 2 replies to you question I also agree that you should ask Gunbroker to remove your post unless you can find paper work from ATF/BATFE stating this is an assigned serial number by them and the pistol is legal to own . 3 things I noticed is the lanyard loop attachment is non standard but interesting. the right hand grip is of and older design and most importantly it would be very interesting to know how the slide that looks to be GI for 45ACP was modified to function with a 38 super barrel. I would not try to sell until I got the altered serial problem resolved.

Sorry guys but all the ARGENTINE serial numbers were in the Italic style FONT I think this is hand stamped. [xx(]

MIKE WISKEY

THE ONLY 1911'S I'VE SEEN THIS TYPE OF LANYARD RING ON ARE THE ARGENTINE CLONES, ALSO THEY USED THAT TYPE OR SER. # STAMPING.

nunn

I agree with Mike. Look also at the shape of the grips and the location of the grip screws. Argentine, and badly refinished.

rufe-snow

I believe that your pistol was made in Spain, rather then Argentina. It appears to be a early production Llama Model 9 to me. Although without the markings, it's difficult to be absolutely sure.

If it is a refinished Llama (or even a Star for all that it matters ?). Even if factory original, excellent condition they wouldn't be big buck collectors items. Being that yours has been refinished it has no collectors value, unfortunately. My WAG $200-$300.

Although resembling our U.S. made Colt auto. The Spanish made clones materials and internal workmanship left a lot to be desired. I wouldn't be shooting .38 Super ammo in it. Use either .38 auto or commercially manufactured 9mm Largo,(which is the Spanish military handgun cartridge, the pistol was designed for). My 2?.

scrubberguy

My first thought, after seeing the photo's, was that this was a Llama.

The Lanyard loop very popular in early production guns. They also sold a lot in 38 super.

Here's what I would do:
1. check deminsions of barrel and bushing. Look for a caliber designation on the barrel. If it's a Llama or Star they usually had the serial numbers on all parts unlike the Colt. My experience was with a Llama in 45 and The barrel was just different enough that I couldn't replace it with a U.S. made part.

There are absolutely no markings on the gun other than the serial number, If you know someone with a standard Colt. Take some measurements across the slide. If it had a bad case of rust and was surface ground you should be able to see a difference in width using a micrometer.

If the silde hasn't been ground and you see serial numbers on internal parts you got a Llama or Star value $300 if you can prove it shoots as good as you say it does. I've yet to see a stone stock 38 super hit the side of a barn from the inside with the door closed!

If you find a bunch of metal has been ground off the slide you my have a colt contract gun. Again it's not worth much because of the cosmetic "abuse" BUT if you can get an auto machine shop to pay attention to what you want the slide can be maganafluxed and any markings will show up under that examanation thus giving you a "read" on what it really is/was.

Let us know what you turn up, it's how we get to be "experts"[8D]

rufe-snow

Check the magazine out, in the first pic. Never saw a Colt mag, with elongated slots like that. Whereas that is a characteristic of the old Llama's, made for the 9mm Largo cartridge.

MrOrange

No ideas on origin, but I noticed the slide is about 3/8" longer than standard (including Llamas, etc.). Thought it might be an illusion due to a reshaped slide in the front cut-out around the recoil spring, but when a 5" gun has the slide locked back the front of the slide is behind the end of the frame.


Congrats, hivoltg, you've got us stumped!

rufe-snow

quote:Originally posted by MrOrange
No ideas on origin, but I noticed the slide is about 3/8" longer than standard (including Llamas, etc.). Thought it might be an illusion due to a reshaped slide in the front cut-out around the recoil spring, but when a 5" gun has the slide locked back the front of the slide is behind the end of the frame.


Congrats, hivoltg, you've got us stumped!








The old Llamas, i.e. Models 8 & 9. Had a 5.6" barrel length.