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World War 2 guns
otter6412
Member Posts: 91 ✭✭
Sometimes I see where WW 2 rifles are listed as "bring backs". I didn't think returning vets were allowed to hang on to their US issued rifles upon discharge.
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You have to remember, the country was in a real hurry to get about a million GI's back home, and little rules were just on paper. They came back with big duffle bags, and didn't have to go thru airport x-ray, homeland shoecurity. They just walked off ships.
A USGI firearm described as a "bring back" would be more accurately described as "stolen US property". But, no one cares now. Anything dating from Viet Nam or later can be investigated by the FBI.
Neal
MBK is correct; there was a form that they filled out & got signed by their CO for foreign made firearms. (They couldn't bring back full autos or destructive devices.
A USGI firearm described as a "bring back" would be more accurately described as "stolen US property". But, no one cares now. Anything dating from Viet Nam or later can be investigated by the FBI.
Neal
RE : full autos - there was an amnesty in 1968, and IIRC a lot of the original US property full auto WW2 stuff got registered in the NFA registery then.
But IIRC I thnk a person could register say a MP40 or other Axis class 3 stuff after WWII but before the GCA 68 just by paying the $200 tax stamp? Is that correct??
There's a bunch of unregistered contraband still out there, & the thieves (& their descendants) have had the nerve to lobby Congress to declare another amnesty.
Neal
Many soldier did manage to smuggle home U.S. issue weapons. But the practice was illegal.
But the Term "Bring back" generally applies to captured enemy weapons. While it was possible and did occasionally happen, most "bring back" Rifles were not picked up on the battlefield by the soldier who brought it home.
My inteviews w/WW-2 vets indicates to me that nearly all attempted to aquire souvinerr rifles in this manner. But quickly abandoned them as too much to carry and take care of in combat situations. On top of their U.S.weapons (which were the only ones they were provided Ammo for) and gear. And the practice seen in movies of USING enemy weapons was a great way to get killed by friendly fire. As all rifles tend to have their own distinctive report when fired, that the soldiers became very attuned to.
As a result, most soldiers kept their souvineer collecting limited to smaller, easy to carry items such as pistols, knives and medals. Maybe an occasional helmet. There was also the threat that being captured w/such war trophies might bring unwanted vengence treatment from enemy troops that found them on your person. And many soldiers refrained from collecting ANY until the war was over.
After the war, there were frequently stockpiles of captured enemy weapons (Long guns, both military and sporting. Knives, bayonets, and other gear not including machine guns and explosives) that soldiers were allowed to collect souvineers from prior to departing for home. Generally they were allowed to take all they believed they could carry.
In most cases "Bring back papers" which listed what/when/where these items were aquired, were issued to accompany them. And authorize transportation of them.
Different theathers, branches of military, and even units occasionally had different rules.
Generally no automatic weapons, explosives (grenades) or weapons that fired explosives (mortars), and Ammo were forbiden. They didn't want armed soldiers killing one another over poker games on the cramped troop tansports. Sometimes (mostly from Europe) pistols were restricted.
Enforcement of these rules varied from strict to extremely lax. Often depending on Company commanders or the Captain of the troop ship. Many soldiers reported being advised of the rules, but not being actually checked to be sure they were follwed.
As a result, many forbidden items were brought home. And many that would've made it were discarded.
Interestingly, it seems that very many soldiers told heroic tales about how they aquired the weapons they arrived home with. Some are undoubedly true. Many of the occurances may be true, but not related to the actual piece. And some are outright lies.
WW-2 Japanese rifles can "generally" be identified as "battlefield aquired" or stockpile aquired, by the presence of the MUM (Flower on top of receiver). The MUM signified ownership by the Emperor of Japan, whom the Japanese believed a God. No Japanese soldier would willingly allow a Mumed weapon to fall into enemy hands. And upon wars end, one of the surrender provisions agreed to my Gen. Mac., was the the Mums be ground off or defaced on all surrendered weapons. Hence ground or defaced Mum weapons are generally regarded as post war aquired. Regarless of the story that may accompany it.
This practice was not done in Germany (Euorpean theater) and these are harder to class in this manner. But from the Vets I've talked to, most of the rifles were aquired from stockpiles after the war. With pistols/smaller items being Battlefield aquired during the wr. Hope this helps.
Also, my father-in-law brought his M-1 Garand back from WWII Europe. It was the same gun issued to him before he went overseas and had never been arsenaled, i.e. it was all correct. He was a comm guy, so it never saw much action, although he fired at some Germans during the Battle of the Bulge and plinked at an ME-109 that was strafing a nearby unit. My wife inherited the rifle when her dad was dying of cancer and she later gave it to a friend (before we were married). Again, there's one I'd love to have.
PBJ, you are correct on all counts. Makes no sense to me, but that's what they did. I'd have used it as a sting, & locked 'em all up. Rewarding thieves & smugglers chafes my butt.
There's a bunch of unregistered contraband still out there, & the thieves (& their descendants) have had the nerve to lobby Congress to declare another amnesty.
Neal
Neal,
Yep, I bet there are thousands if not hundred of thousands of old WWII and Korean full auto stuff hidden away.
I'm surprised that Congress didn't allow another amnesty, since it means more $$$ to the BATFE...$200 to register, $200 every time it is transferred, etc...JMHO
There is one positive note to this story. My friend also took the German major's Iron Cross and Luftwaffe dagger. He mailed them home to his parents in 1944 and they remained in his possession until he died of cancer in 1984. I believe they now belong to the man's nephew.
Both were later destroyed in a house fire.
A few weeks before my pals' grandfather was getting ready to end his tour in Japan during WWII he acquired a Arisaka in 7.7 from a Japanese soldier he shot. He knew that if he layed the rifle down he would never bring it home, so he tied it to his Garand and it never left his sight. I never got to shoot it, but I did hold it and that is one long rifle. I can't imagine a small Japanese guy packing that thing all over but they did.
The 7.7 T-99 is considered a Carbine. The previous 6.5 T-38 Arisaka rifle was even bigger. W/bayo attached, easily as long as many Japanese soldiers were tall.
I also doubt the story. Unless he was talking about being on Iwo Jima or Okinawa, the war was over before any U.S. pesonel set foot on the Japanese homeland. And very few vets of the battles, except the wounded were allowed to go home w/the invasion of Japan in the planning.
Likely picked up from stockpiled arms after wars end like I described above. But such stories attached to non-battlefield PU's were VERY common.
The barracks bag and all contents were stolen in the Philippines. Interesting times. [:D]
He did manage to bring home his (or somebody's!) .45. He sold that to a guy in Houston in 1955 for $ 50.00. [:(]
Then they loaded them on barges and dumped them in Tokyo Bay. There are reportedly more Arisaka's on the bottom of Tokyo Bay, than all the others in the world combined.