Another Garand question updated w/ pics

dcinffxva

I just picked up an International Harvester Garand, with the serial #51112XX. It was part of a package deal, so I didn't look at it all that closely, but when I got home, noticed that it has NM stamped into the op-rod. Did IHC make National Match guns, or is this just a replaced op-rod. ? Anything else I should be looking for ? It has a IHC bolt, SA trigger group, and the barrel has what appears to be CMR some other numbers and 1-55 A9. Not really sure about the CMR or the A9, the parking is so thick the numbers are almost unreadable.

Thanks

Mr Gee

it does sound as though some one changed parts,.. i really don't know the answer to that, but the guys over at.. http://www.jouster.com/ really big on military stuff like you have found

Herschel

International Harvester did not make National Match M1's. Perhaps it could have been a rifle that was rebuilt into a NM after SA stopped manufacturing M1 receivers in about 1957. You almost certainly have a parts gun. Maybe it was one that a civilian gunsmith accurized using some NM parts.

carolinashooter

Are you sure barrel is not "LMR" and not "CMR"? Line Material produced barrels for IHC. NM marked op rods do not make it a NM rifle. A great number of op rods were produced by both Remington and Springfield and marked NM. Most of these were simply used as replacements when needed during a rebuild process. True National Match rifles that are documented that I have seen have all been Springfields. Yours sounds like a CMP/DCM rifle that went through a rebuild. If you can, gauge the throat and muzzle. You may have a good shooter. Sounds like a good find.

perry shooter

Hello The Military Marksmanship units were for the most part the ONLY people that built original Nation Match Garands these started out as RACK guns and were fit up with National Match "NM" parts . Just like the Military National match pistol parts The current Springfield Match guns Nation Match Guns and SUPER Match guns are just a play on words. The current SPRINGFIELD is the same in name only as the Springfield Armory that was U.S. Government owned and operated Just like the 1911 and 1911A1 and the 30 carbine Many companies made the Garand . Wait for BOBSKI he will give you the straight scoop

EDIT [:p][:p] Hello Carolina Shooter I guess what I was trying to get across was just because you see a rifle with NM on a part does not make it a National Match Rifle. NM parts were made under contract and to the blueprint drawing of that part IF a RIFLE SMITH put the correct parts on a rifle and did his magic on fitting these parts to the receiver and after testing was satisfied with the group size then it was given to a member of a Military shooting team and this was a National match rifle as used at Camp Perry. The Springfied of today is Springfield in Name only and they seem to call every thing a National Match and other great sounding names . They build some good rifles but they are not MILITARY SHOOTING TEAM National Match Rifles . IMHO the MILITARY gunsmiths no mater if at a military ARMORY owned by the U.S. Government of one of the master rifle and pistol smiths at places like Fort Benning or Quantico make a firearm that is a REAL NATIONAL MATCH. ALL OTHERS build MATCH RIFLES and you can call them what you choose to YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

nmyers

It could be just about anything. Are there any import markings?

"Thick" parkerizing troubles me. Do you know how to tell if the receiver has been cut/rewelded? What are the markings on the front of the receiver (on the leg)?

Good photos are a must.

Neal

EDIT: It looks like zinc phosphate, a commercial parkerizing process. Neal

carolinashooter

Perry Shooter, are you saying that Springfield Armory did not build type 2 and type 3 National Match guns as new?

Herschel

The following is a quotation from a booklet entitled "1963 RIFLE NATIONAL MATCHES". This was produced by the U. S. Army Materiel Command and distributed at the 1963 National Matches, Cp Perry, Ohio.

"2. During the succeeding years from 1954 through 1963 the Armory produced National Match quality weapons by two methods, namely; (1) by applying minor gunsmithing operations to newly manufactured rifles as described in the preceding paragraph and (2) by rebuilding National Match weapons returned to the installation from various locations throughout the world. The latter procedure requires a considerable amount of inspection, refinishing, and rebuilding of weapon components. This work is necessary to eliminate parts which evidence excessive wear or which have been altered in the field for some particular reason. Each rebuilt National Match rifle is rebarreled, restocked and glass bedded.

3. Inasmuch as production of new Cal. .30 M1 Rifles has been completely curtailed, M1, NM Rifles to be issued during the 1963 National Matches are rebuilt weapons.............." end of quote.

FWIW

carolinashooter

Herschel, that is exactly as I understand they were built. I feel sure some were built up at other levels but most were done at Springfield. The Springfield guns are usually accepted as "real" because they can be researched and documented. Anyone can gather parts if they know what they are doing and build up a clone. Look at all the "C" and "D" models running around. Few are documented as original.

givette

Dcinffxva: givette here. If I remember correctly, arsenal armorers stamped NM on the receiver heel after the re-work at Springfield Armory.

Pull your stock, the op-rod will probably be marked "SA" (along with the drawing number) where the spring comes out of the hole. I think you have a standard rifle with throw-together parts. Joe

Emmett Dunham

You can look up the national match rifles at the Springfield web sight and they are all Springfields none of the other makers. The oprod on your rifle is replacement and should have SA stamped on it. Someone sandblasted the crape out of the barrel and receiver, should have bead blasted it, still looks great!


Emmett