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Another Ruger #1 question
dpmule
Member Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭
I am still trying to find "the one" ruger #1 in 30 06 to rechamber into a 300 H&H.
My porspects are
A "B" that has a 26" barrel, and an "A" that has a 22" barrel with sights and an AH foreend, would the 22" barrel be sifficent for the old H&H round or would I get better accuracy from the 26"? ( I like the looks of the AH forend and could possibly use the irons sights at times)
I do not know because I have never had anything with less than a 26" except for my Win M-94 32 Spcl, and Marlin 1895 GG 45/70
Thanks guys
My porspects are
A "B" that has a 26" barrel, and an "A" that has a 22" barrel with sights and an AH foreend, would the 22" barrel be sifficent for the old H&H round or would I get better accuracy from the 26"? ( I like the looks of the AH forend and could possibly use the irons sights at times)
I do not know because I have never had anything with less than a 26" except for my Win M-94 32 Spcl, and Marlin 1895 GG 45/70
Thanks guys
Comments
I believe this choice of guns to be made up of several decisions, based on your intended use of the gun and other factors.
The 22" barrel should deliver very good accuracy out to 300 yards or less. So if you believe 300 yards or less will be the maximum distance of 85% or more of your shooting with the gun, you may wish to consider the 22 incher. I've not used the 300 H&H, but I've always imagined it to be, generally, a short-range round (under 200 yards), but I don't know.
Another decision depends on how far and under what conditions you expect to be carrying the rifle. A shorter, lighter gun will be (obviously) easier and less cumbersom to carry further and for a longer period of time. Also, the shorter gun will be easier to handle and faster to bring to bear on the target in any conditions, but more so in close quarters, dense brush, etc.
Which of the two guns you simply like better will be another decision. Is one in better condition or a higher grade than the other? Is one considerably less expensive than the other? You like the forearm configuartion on the shorter gun; maybe that will determine your choice.
Consider also the barrel twist rates of the two guns if they are different. You should consider the ammunition you will be firing most of the time and consder the twist rate that will deliver the best accuracy with that bullet. This consideration may also be a factor in deciding whether or not to rebarrel the gun (another expense) if the existing twist rate is not acceptable.
You may wish also to compromise and get the 26" barrel and have a good gunsmith cut it to 24", recrown it and install a good set of iron sights that pleases you. In my opinion, the 24" should allow very good accuracy out to 500 yards at least. And, there's a big difference in my opinion in the handling characteristics of a 24" vs. a 26" gun. More of a difference than between a 22" and 24" gun.
Those are some of the things I would consider. The ultimate decision of course, is yours. Please keep us updated on how this goes for you.
Jon
I would handle, mount and swing both rifles before deciding. The balance of a rifle and how it comes up to your shoulder and swings to the target can make a big difference to most shooters. Sometimes a lighter, shorter rifle wavers in your grip and makes it hard to get on target and stay on target. The longer, heavier rifle might be muzzle heavy and equally as uncomfortable as the short rifle.
Ruger #1 rifles can have longer barrels and seem like a standard length rifle due to the short, compact action.
Using heavier bullets, the .300 H&H will work just fine in the 22" barrel so long as you use a balanced powder. The noise will be a little bright but it's a short barrel. Wear ear protection. I've worked with barrels as short as 20" for both the .300 and .375 H&H with good results.
The .300 H&H has been used as a 1,000 yard target cartridge successfully for years.
Check the twist rate in both and make sure it will handle the bullets you want to shoot.
The .308 Win will not be the equal of the .300 H&H in any length barrel. Doesn't seem right but the figures don't fib.
Best.
Added:
swearengine,
Your entitled to your opinion. If you have some trick answer, good for you. I was giving the poster a useful answer.
Best.
ADDED:
swearengine,
"I never stated the barrel lengths would be equal, that is your misunderstanding."
You're right, you never stated that the barrels would be equal lengths. And that's the trick. That's where you achieve equivalence and not a direct honest comparison. No one in their right mind wants to shoot a .300 H&H at the equivalent of the .308 Win. It makes no sense. Forker's point is useless since it proves nothing. The .300 H&H operates at 300 FPS faster than the .308 Win. with 700 ft./lbs. more energy. His method of distorting the information serves no purpose.
As I always state, you are certainly entitled to your opinions and his way of thinking. I would never take that away from anyone.
Best of luck.
The .308 Win will not be the equal of the .300 H&H in any length barrel
Sure it will. If you chop enough barrel length off the 300 H&H to reduce the velocity of the 300 H&H to a designated velocity of the 308, the ft lbs of energy become almost equal.
nononsense: I too was giving the poster a legitimate answer. I believe the 300 H&H to be an excellent cartridge. I believe none of the cartridges that have followed it have improved on it. A cartridge that is 90 years old and standing on its merits is high praise. I believe in long barrels. I believe if you are going to use a carbine length barrel; for a cartridge that requires length of barrel in order to burn the large amount of powder and to extract the full potential of the cartridge; then you are losing the potential of that cartridge and you are handicapping yourself, as my example of the 308 Win.
When I stated that if you chopped the barrel of the 300 H&H to the designated velocity of the 308 you would have equal ft lbs of energy is not a trick.
I will quote from "Ammo and Ballistics by Bob Forker":
308 Win, Federal 180 grain Nosler Partition,velocity 2620 fps, energy in ft lbs 2745.
300 H&H Federal 180 grain Nosler Partition, velocity 2880 fps, energy in ft lbs 3315.
If you reduce the velocity of the 300 H&H to 308 Win; 2620 fps, the energy of the 300 H&H in ft lbs is 2750.
Both of these examples use 24" barrels.
Now experts will tell you that velocity is lost when barrels are shortened. How much velocity is lost per inch of barrel reduction is subjective. But if you remove 4" at 65 fps/inch loss, the 300 H&H is at 308 Win. velocity. If you wish to change the numbers, that is fine, the point is; chop enough barrel, lose enough velocity, lose enough energy, that beautiful workhorse 300 H&H becomes a 308 Win.
I never stated the barrel lengths would be equal, that is your misunderstanding.
I use mules and horses for accessing 98% of my hunting areas, so weight isn't a real major concern as it would be if I were sheep hunting alot. The shooting range here in the Intermountain west ranges from 50 yds and less in bedding cover to 300 yards on open hillsides and some cross canyon or ridgeline to ridgeline work.
My preference for the 300 H&H comes from as young man I got to use my uncles M-70 and always was pleased that no one else in camp was using the same caliber, now that more than a few sunrises have past, I am feeling the same, but since shooting left-handed I resign my self to having this classic round in a Ruger #1, although I do have a 375 H&H in a left hand Sako AV that I a quite fond of( Anyone know if Sako ever offered the AV LH in 300 H&H).
As always thanks for the insight and opinions.
I'm glad you've decided. I think the 26" barrel will balance better in your hands and the extra 4" will only be a benefit for the .300 H&H ballistics. With a scope and rings you should be a pinch under 10 lbs. which should be O.K. in my opinion.
I don't know about the AV but the L61R shows the .300 and the .375 H&H but I can't say whether it was available in left hand or not. I have the .375 H&H in the L61R but not the .300 H&H.
Enjoy the rifle!
Best.
If what you are saying is: All things being equal,with the same BARREL LENGTH, the 308 Win will never be the equal of the 300 H&H, we are not only in the same book, but on the same page and the same sentence. I am sorry for this missed communication.
As to Forkers information, I believe in science. I am sorry that you can not accept science. He uses information from A-Square Company Inc., Black Hills Ammunition, CCI/Speer (Blount Sporting Equipment Division), Federal Cartridge Company, Fiocchi, Hansen Cartridge Company, Hornady Manufacturing Company, Patria Lapua Oy, Lazzeroni Arms Company, Kynoch, Magtech, Norma Precision AB, PMC, Remington Arms, Weatherby, Winchester Ammunition and Oehler Research Inc. I believe these companies know more than either you or I do.
I apologize to you dpmule, I did not think this topic would become a pissing match between nononsense and myself, but I was wrong. I am happy you decided on the 26" tube. I believe that is the only option you could have.
There wasn't a match of any kind as far as I'm concerned.
As I said, you're entitled to your own opinion right or wrong, and I stand by that.
Best.