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Brown Bess?

gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,091 ✭✭✭
edited April 2008 in Ask the Experts
When my Dad was a child he was digging in the dirt near his home and found a bayonet. He held onto it all these years (approx. 70 yrs) and gave it to me to see what I could find out about it. I believe it's a brown Bess. It has no markings that I can find. It's pitted but seems in good shape otherwise. How can I find out it's age, origin and value?

I also have some shells or ammunition that I believe is from World War I. I'm assuming its WWI because it came from my husbands late grandfathers home and he fought in WWI. I'm a bit nervous having this stuff around as I'm not sure if it's live. How do I find out?

Your help is appreciated.

Comments

  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,091 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have this old Flint Lock rifle that was at my Fathers and I know nothing about it. Is it am original "Brown Bess" Any idea of approx. value? Any and all help is very appreciated.
    Thank you in advance,
    Ed
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can you edit, and hit the "enter" key between photos?
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are there any barrel or stock markings?
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Although the wood has a "beat up" appearance, the finish on the metal parts appears suspect to me. The wear on the markings, and patina normally found on a 200+ year old military rifle isn't apparent.

    Dixie Gun works and others imported similar replicas as early as the 1960's. My WAG is that what this flintlock is.

    These flintlock replicas are still being imported and sold. Considering the condition of yours I believe it would be valued perhaps 25% to 35% less then the ones being sold now.
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,091 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    Are there any barrel or stock markings?

    There is a big rectangle maybe 1/2" X 1" on the left side of the butt stock that has PDL in it.
    On the barrel, there is a GB and a crown over it with an arrow pointing down and maybe crossed swords?under a crown
    That's about all I can find!
    Thanks,
    Ed
  • rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It looks real to me. True, it looks too good to be true. But the hammer looks like a replacement, not correct for that type of lock, which makes me think it may have been given some restoration in the recent past (50 years is recent for that piece). Looks like it could be a third model Bess that dates from post 1800, 39" barrel would tend to confirm that. 42" would make it a second model that could date from American Rev period. The lock markings are very clear. Look at the GR below the crown with a strong magnifier. If the parts of the letters are made up of a fine series of small engraved parallel lines that would give it a lot of credibility. Stamped or cast-in lettering a-la-repro will have more or less flat impressed letters.

    The third model Bess often called the India Pattern is valued a lot less than those dating possibly back into American history maybe 1000-$1200. Second model easily twice that if real and mostly original. There is a first model with 46" barrel, which this is not.

    Update: 39" makes it a 3rd model, assuming bbl of original length. Wood ramrods were abandoned late in 1st model. Metal RR is correct for this model. I have owned all the models and have worked on many more. Check my profile.
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I strongly suggest you go to www.antiqueguns.com and post your question for Bill Curtis in the pre-1899 forum. Bill is a published authority on British weapons (I believe his father or grandfather was a Royal Armorer) and he is located in England. He will know for sure and is a regular contributor in that forum. Please let us know what you find out.
  • Chief ShawayChief Shaway Member, Moderator Posts: 6,289 ******
    edited November -1
    The lock and barrel to me looks way to nice to go with the rest of the gun. What is the barrel length? I have not seen an original that had the barrel as clean as that one. If original it is over 250years old. Also an original would have a wooden ram rod and the ram rod pipes would allow for them. Is the end of the ramrod one piece or is the end pinned on? It does appear that the side plate is raised. That would make it a 1st model but, after looking at mine, the side plate on mine is a lot longer. Also how long is the tang coming off of the butt plate? Does it go half way down the cheek or only 1/4 way down. If it goes down half way, is it pinned thru the comb? I am trying to remember who made the Tower lock Bess's but I really don't think that this gun is that old. I believe that someone "tried" to age the stock. I have been out of re-enacting for a while but I would think that you could still get around $850. I do not believe that this gun is original. My best guess would be of Japanese origin. Probably 20 years old in my opinion
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,091 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chief Shaway
    The lock and barrel to me looks way to nice to go with the rest of the gun. What is the barrel length? I have not seen an original that had the barrel as clean as that one. If original it is over 250years old. Also an original would have a wooden ram rod and the ram rod pipes would allow for them. Is the end of the ramrod one piece or is the end pinned on? It does appear that the side plate is raised. That would make it a 1st model but, after looking at mine, the side plate on mine is a lot longer. Also how long is the tang coming off of the butt plate? Does it go half way down the cheek or only 1/4 way down. If it goes down half way, is it pinned thru the comb? I am trying to remember who made the Tower lock Bess's but I really don't think that this gun is that old. I believe that someone "tried" to age the stock. I have been out of re-enacting for a while but I would think that you could still get around $850. I do not believe that this gun is original. My best guess would be of Japanese origin. Probably 20 years old in my opinion

    Hi ya Chief,
    It has a 39" barrel, the tang comes more like a third of the way down the cheek and does appear to be pinned. It has a steel ram rod.
    Thanks,
    Ed
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