In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Converting AR15 to full auto?

coledigger4coledigger4 Member Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 2008 in Ask the Experts
I know that no one in their right mind would want to try this for fear of ending up in a Federal prison but I overheard a discussion and I think the one guy is wrong. He claims that with a part called "the missing link" it is possible to convert a Colt AR 15 into both "select fire" and "full auto". I really couldn't argue the point because I don't know but the other guy said it is impossible because of the way the civilian models are built. I have heard about a "missing link" but I thought it was for some other type of gun. I finally told them that a person would have to be THE "missing link" to even consider this considering the consequences if you ever got caught with such a thing. Just for the record, which one was right?

Comments

  • MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With the addition of a 'Lightening Link' or Drop-in auto sear (DIAS)an AR-15 can be legally converted to full-auto. The ATF Considered the DIAS to be the machine gun, so they were serial numbered and registered as such. An AR still has to have all of the other full-auto parts (Bolt carrier,hammer etc)for the DIAS to work. If you have an AR with full-auto parts, and no DIAS you are illegal. If you have a registered DIAS, then you can have the full-auto parts in your AR. I've never heard anyone use the term missing link. Registered DIAS sell for $8-12,000. IT's actually getting to the point were it's cheaper to pay the fine than buy the gun. I think it's time for another amnesty[:D]
  • coledigger4coledigger4 Member Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have seen the "missing link" advertised in Shotgun News but have not a clue as to what it even looks like.
  • AZEXAZEX Member Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DIAS+plus FA selector, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and bolt carrier = true select fire.

    "Lightning Link" is a drop in device, not nearly as sturdy, which works on FA only (safe still works) with all the rest of the semi parts in place.

    There are transferrable lightning links out there, about 3500 bucks.

    D.
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by AZEX
    DIAS+plus FA selector, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and bolt carrier = true select fire.

    "Lightning Link" is a drop in device, not nearly as sturdy, which works on FA only (safe still works) with all the rest of the semi parts in place.

    There are transferrable lightning links out there, about 3500 bucks.

    D.


    -select fire is possible with lightning links

    -they run about $6k these days
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    All I can say, unless the lightening link, or DIAS is properly registered, and you have to take out a second mortgage for it, don't do it. 10 years is a long time to wear lipstick, and play the part of Bubba's girlfriend in the crowbar hotel. Fully automatic fire that is controlled has a distinctive sound that can be heard for miles away.
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

    Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

    Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.


    You are absolutely correct, it needs the select fire control group, and the machinegun bolt carrier to work. If I am not mistaken, the BATFE looks at any of those parts in whole or part in the weapon, as intent, and the weapon being a machine gun. The DIAS, or lightening link, themselves are what is registered, so mere possesion of one could be considered a no no if there is no paper work.

    EDIT:

    There were other manufacturers who had the spot inside the reciever open enough on early models to accomodate drop in parts other than Colt. IF THE DIAS OR LIGHTENING LINK IS REGISTERED, then there is no need to have an early reciever.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From ATF P5300.4, page 128:

    "Regardless of the date of manufacture of a DIAS, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA."

    Neal
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    ...it needs the select fire control group, and the machinegun bolt carrier to work.Even with replacement of all these parts, their receivers are dimensioned specifically to prevent the use of these drop-in auto conversion parts.

    AR receivers were originally nothing more than M16's minus one hole drilled for installation of the auto-sear pin. These drop-in conversion devices were designed to simply sit inside this type of lower reciever and are held in place without the use of any pins, meaning no modification of the receiver was required.

    Besides using non-auto fire control group parts and bolt carrier, the open area within the lower receiver required for use of a DIAS or Lightning Link doesn't exist in today's AR recievers. If you see one being used, it's either an old receiver with M16 fire control group parts/bolt carrier installed or they've milled the reciever to accept the drop-in auto part and replaced it's internals with auto-fire capable parts.

    In short coledigger, the fella who told you this is spreading a tale that hasn't been true for decades, but it's a myth the gun control types like to keep alive.
  • AZEXAZEX Member Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Correct, and that's one of the many reasons why Colt sucks. Plus that stupid block they put in thousands of them. Then the cutting of the "ring" on the rear of the bolt carrier for years, but now they put FA carriers in their factory guns.

    None of the restrictions (impediments to customer satisfaction) the block, the cut BC, the larger front pin, or the larger hammer/trigger pin have been necessitated by Federal Law. They're just a bunch of Conneticut Yankee sellouts who care more about sucking up to Big Daddy .gov than they do about Freedom.

    Screw Colt.

    D.

    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    I'm a Colt M16/AR15 Armorer.

    Due to several design/parts issues, no Colt AR15 manufactured since I believe the 60's or very early 70's can be converted to full-auto by simply installing a drop in auto-sear or lightning link.
  • AZEXAZEX Member Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And ATF LOSES in Court on this "rule" everytime someone with deep enough pockets, and competant enough legal team takes them to task on it. A pile of parts do not the definition of "machinegun" per Title 18 USC make. But when they ATF loses in court they just act like nothing happened.

    D.

    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    From ATF P5300.4, page 128:

    "Regardless of the date of manufacture of a DIAS, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA."

    Neal


    ???? I'd like to see how this magic of engineering works. A LL is basically a paddle and a "loop" that lassos the disconnector. It is designed to allow the BC (semi type) to pivot the paddle, pulling on the loop which pulls the disconnector, thereby achieving safe FA fire. There is no provision for semi, since an FA selector is not required for an LL to function. So, barring an invocation from a Wizard, I doubt that true "select fire" would be possible with an LL. At least none I've ever used were capable of such a feat.

    "-select fire is possible with lightning links

    -they run about $6k these days"

    D.
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by AZEX
    They're just a bunch of Conneticut Yankee sellouts who care more about......maintaining their contract to supply the US gov't with their products.

    However, other AR manufacturers also use redemensioned receivers to increase the difficulty of conversion to automatic fire. Colt just started doing this first.

    The reason Colt now uses automatic bolt carriers is that their extra weight increases reliability and federal regs changed to allow this about 2 years ago.
Sign In or Register to comment.