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python cylinder lockup
gocargo
Member Posts: 54 ✭
Vin E499XX 4" nickel.
In 4 of the 6 cartridge positions, when I draw the hammer back two full clicks, (calculating, target practice style), my fingers can further rotate the cylinder another 1/32 to 1/64th-inch wherefore the cylinder stop will click "home" and the bore and breech line up good.
Likewise (those 4 out of 6 times) with drawn hammer, when I don't further rotate the cylinder forward but rather rotate it backwards, it moves 1/16-inch (backwards) and the bore/breech is noticeably/dangerously misaligned.
If I throw the hammer back with force/speed-shooting style then the cylinder locks up fine every time.
Question.. is this like a local (Atlanta) gunsmith repair or is this gonna cost me hundreds? I just bought it sight-unseen to be a shooter, not a beauty queen.
Thanks,
-Ken
In 4 of the 6 cartridge positions, when I draw the hammer back two full clicks, (calculating, target practice style), my fingers can further rotate the cylinder another 1/32 to 1/64th-inch wherefore the cylinder stop will click "home" and the bore and breech line up good.
Likewise (those 4 out of 6 times) with drawn hammer, when I don't further rotate the cylinder forward but rather rotate it backwards, it moves 1/16-inch (backwards) and the bore/breech is noticeably/dangerously misaligned.
If I throw the hammer back with force/speed-shooting style then the cylinder locks up fine every time.
Question.. is this like a local (Atlanta) gunsmith repair or is this gonna cost me hundreds? I just bought it sight-unseen to be a shooter, not a beauty queen.
Thanks,
-Ken
Comments
As for gunsmithing, some will just give the hand a slight elongation so the lock up will be done with your single action pull on the hammer. If it was me, I would just make sure I give the hammer a good solid pull to rotate the cylinder to lock up. You don't need to be gentle. If its gets to the point where it won't lock up with double action then you'll need the smithy. Just make sure he knows his Colts because getting the timing right is everything.
A new hand should be eay to find, but it may also involve more than just replacing the hand. The notches on the rear of the cylinder where the hand engages may be worn, but a smith should be able to indentify if that area needs attention.
In function, the top of the hand starts the movement of the cylinder as the bolt drops. The 2nd stage then lifts against the cylinder ratchet and if all goes well as the hammer reaches full cock the 2nd stage of the hand moves the cylinder into place and the cylinder bolt drops in. You'll notice the ratchets on the cylinder are prominent and the lock up occurs when the 2nd stage is lifted up against the horizontal ratchet.
Cost of the fix could be zero or about $35.00 if you are able to do it yourself. If the lock up is just a touch out of time you can use a hardened steel punch to dimple the hand just under the second stage or peen the 2nd stage up a bit; or you can buy a replacement from Numrich Arms for about $35.00.
Peening/punching can be just a temp fix depending on how hard you use it. Fitting a replacement requires knowing exactly what you're doing. The top of the hand, the 2nd stage and the inside of the hand need to be properly fitted to function and lock up properly. And the parts of the old Colt lock work are interdependent. If you don't fit the hand properly the cylinder can start to move before the bolt drops from the cylinder bolt cuts. If the 2nd stage isn't properly fitted it can lock against the ratchet before the hammer reaches full cock.
It's not brain surgery and it's all handwork, but you have to know just what to do. I've done a dozen or so, screwed up the first one I ever did and another one along about the 9th or 10th on a 38 Special New Service.
If a new hand is properly fitted, for the first few hundred rounds you should feel just a hint of the sear notch brushing the top of the sear just as the gun locks up and the hammer releases. That means the 2nd stage of the hand is pressing against the ratchet just as the sear is releasing from the SA sear notch.
If you take it to a gunsmith I would look for someone who does Colts and has done the older guns. Just a guess, but I'd figure $50.00 plus the part. Doing a Python hand should cost any more than any other Colt DA revolver with the same internals.
The only firearms that I'm generally comfortable working on are bolt actions or have push pins.
Thanks again!
-Ken
means lengthening the hand AND removing metal from those two ratchets that will be too tight.
They all need to be equal.
It's not just a matter of replacing parts.
A lot of fast, double action shooting isn't good for Colt revolvers because they end up having the same problems.
When you check out any revolver, put drag on the cylinder with your left thumb as you slowly cock it. It should lock up at every chamber position.
Being that two of the chambers lock up fine while four don't
means lengthening the hand AND removing metal from those two ratchets that will be too tight.
They all need to be equal.It's not just a matter of replacing parts.
True about not just replacing parts if you mean drop in, but removing metal on the ratchet is not the correct fix. The hand is the part to fit and the design of the gun allows it to be done as to accomodate the slight variations of the ratchet.
The second hand step advances each chamber into final position to enable the locking bolt to drop in. When properly done, this takes place before the trigger is pulled and the hammer releases.
The hammer overshoots the lock position by an infinitesimal amount
to allow the sear to drop in.
Proper single action in Colt revolver timing is when these events occur simultaneously with only slightly perceptible hammer overtravel.
That means all ratchet lobes need to be equal unless you increase hammer overtravel.
The quick and dirty fix would be by lengthening the hand with a few ball pein strokes and filing the hammer stop to allow for variations in lift.
If you can time a Colt with just an alteration in the hand, please let us in on it.
In the past there were very few Colt revolvers out of the box that were in the best of timing. Mid 70's thru mid 90's that is.
Buy a smith & wesson[:D] We always said that the 'smith' in s&w stood for 'gunsmith'.
Good luck, and the old python isn't as bad a case as it may sound.
I guess it's harder to explain than do, and yes I suppose we'd end up with the same result, but since the hand is mounted on the trigger and the trigger has alot of movement to it, by fitting the hand only you should be able to find enough "common ground" for lack of a better term so that all the cylinders are held tight when the trigger is pulled. If there is significant difference then you may not be able to get what I think is an ideal fitting - that's where the hand locks up the cylinder when the trigger is pulled and just as the SA sear clears the sear notch in the hammer and you can feel (if holding back the hammer with your thumb & lowering the hammer) just a hint of rub as the SA sear releases. That means the SA sear is being cleared just as the 2nd stage of the hammer is locking against the underside of the ratchet - the interdependence of those parts is just terrific.
I think the best explanation I've heard of the difference in getting proper lock lock up between a Colt and a Smith is this - a Smith hand costs $8.00, a Colt hand costs $40.00. [:(]