In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Question on my new dragonov
swav
Member Posts: 87 ✭✭
Ok so I know .308 and 7.62x54 are the same round or I think so. I just want to know if it's safe to use American make .308 or do i need to stick to the Russian 7.62x54..
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x51mm_NATO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x54mmR
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Makes us wonder if the rifle you have is a Dragunov. Best to post photos so we can exactly what you have.
Neal
I am guessing PSL, but I wasent going to go there.
Neal
The "confusing" pair are the 7.62x51 AKA 7.62 NATO and the 308 Winchester. Dimentally very similar, but a different pressure spec (same is true of the 5.56 NATO and the 223 Rem).
The Russian round is (as you noted) the 7.62x54 R. The "R" is important, as it denotes the round has a rim on it (the NATO / Win round is rimless).
Now if you can find some US made 7.62x54R ammo, than you can use that in place of the ComBlock made stuff (the Win 7.62x54R is not US made BTW)
Ok so I know .308 and 7.62x54 are the same round or I think so. I just want to know if it's safe to use American make .308 or do i need to stick to the Russian 7.62x54..
No.
First of all .308 Winchester (aka 7.62x51 NATO) is NOT the same thing as 7.62x54R (aka .30 Russian), and not even close.
While these two rounds are roughly comparable in terms of overall power, they are totally different and most definitely will NOT interchange.
The first one uses a shorter rimless case and .308 caliber bullets. The Russian round uses a longer tapered rimmed case and .312 caliber bullets.
If you were to try I think you'd find that you couldn't even get a .30 Russian round to fit into a .308 magazine or rifle chamber. Conversely, while you probably could jam a .308 round into a .30 Russian gun, it will likely be too short to go off. DON'T try it. . .If it actually went off, you wouldn't be happy.
Next, which ammo you use obviously depends on which gun you have.
Figure that out first.
Within the USA, there are several guns that commonly go by the name 'Dragunov', though its probably only technically correct to call the Russian made ones that name.
Contrary to what is suggested above, Chinese Dragunov-type rifles in .308 do exist, and there are some of them in the USA. There are also .308 Romanian PSL rifles (which look like the Dragunov rifles, but have a different internal design and are not parts-interchangeable) available, though again, they're not that common. Russian-made .308 Dragunovs also do exist, though if any of them made it into the USA, they're extremely scarce.
If it happens that you actually do have one of these .308 guns, then then you should use 7.62x51 ammo, obviously, and any NATO spec ammo should be OK. I would probably NOT use commercial .308 Winchester ammo unless I was quite sure about its specs, as **SOME** of this commercial ammo is loaded to higher pressures than ordinary 7.62x51 NATO ammo, and could potentially damage your gun.
Now, alternatively, its also possible that you have a Romanian PSL rifle (which often gets called a "Dragunov" in the USA, even though technically it isn't) in 7.62x54R. Actual Russian made Dragunov-type guns in 7.62x54R were imported for a while under the brand name "Tiger", so its also possible that you have one of these.
Regardless of the exact type, if you do have a 7.62X54R gun, it should "like" any of the relatively common and inexpensive surplus 7.62x54R "light ball" on the market.
This stuff currently runs about $90-100 per 440 round "spam" can, plus shipping, and its got quite a punch, usually a little more than milspec .308.
Avoid surplus "heavy ball" ammo, as its designed for machine guns, and the extra punch can damage your rifle.
Edit:
quote:Originally posted by drobs
I believe some of those Romanian PSL's were chambered in 7.62x51.
You are correct, sir.
As above, Romanian, Chinese, and Russian rifles of this general type have been made in .308 for different markets. As far as I know, only Chinese and Romanian ones were actually imported into the USA, and even then not in large numbers.
The Chinese .308 guns were subject to some sort of recall because they could fire out of battery (REALLY bad if that happens). If you have one, you'd want to make sure its had the bolt and/or firing pin modified to be safe to shoot.
Despite this, any Chinese made Dragunov-type gun is going to be a pretty scarce and pricey item.
Edit#2:
Reasonably good FAQ on these guns here, and there is a ton of information on them on the internet, if you go look:
http://www.dragunov.net/faq.htm
Just know what it takes and get EXACTLY that ammo. Most 7.62x54R is pretty cheap still and easily found on the internet now.
-good luck
The Russians commercially load heavy ball and even 200-grain softnose ammunition under various brands (Barnaul, Wolf, various 'Bear', etc.) but these are intended for use in Mosins. Regarding surplus, most is the 148-grain light ball ('LPS'), but some of the old heavy ball is still around, with yellow tips. Note that the light ball will have a silver tip or an unpainted tip. No SHKAS loads of 7.62x54R have turned up on the market in this country, which is a good thing, as those cartridges will even dismantle a Mosin. It was designed for Russian aircraft machine guns, even hotter than the Maxim stuff.
Please double check your rifle.